1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Epson Emp-tw10h Dead Pixels

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by psykosonik, Nov 24, 2004.

  1. psykosonik

    psykosonik
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    33
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    Hey Guys im currently new to the AVFORUMS, what brings me here is, i've currently purchased the epson tw10h projector and found 5 dead green pixels within the first 22 hours of use, i returned this to the retailer that i purcahsed it from and they gave me a replacement (no hassles). The moment i switched it on my eyes were on a look out for green pixels and after 5 minutes i noticed the first dead pixel... now the pixels are showing up in a green color on a black background.

    is there anyone that has this model and has the same problem if so what are your suggestions... epson does not cover any pixels loss as they claim it is normal. (response from technical suppport)

    Overall besides the dead pixels i am very pleased with the image quality running on composite from a el cheapo dvd player. Xbox even on svideo is kinda blurry when looking for distant images.
     
  2. Oakleyspatz

    Oakleyspatz
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,684
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Woking
    Ratings:
    +230
    Most companies operate an upper limit on dead pixels before declaring the unit sub-standard. This figure is usually around 5 dead pixels. If you have significantly more than this, I'd get back onto your supplier and kick up a stink again.
    Composite is the very worst connection you can make, so if this looks good to you then imagine what DVD would look like through component!!!
    I'm not sure of the exact resolution of your model, but I think it's a 800x600 which is as low as they go now so you will indeed notice a lack of detail on smaller objects within the image such as distant people etc. Best advice is to sit further back from the screen, or reduce the size of the image.
     
  3. MikeK

    MikeK
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,231
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +316
    Are you sure it's dead pixels you are looking at, and not dust speckles?
     
  4. PjPip

    PjPip
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    312
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +8
    Unfortunately, I have seen this across many TW10Hs. It's a bit of a saga but here goes...

    My original unit seemed fine, I didn't do a pixel check but never noticed any either in approx 100hrs of viewing. The unit started failing to turn on, indicating a fault (can't remember if it was blinking once or twice a second!) so I called Epson and they arranged next day service - pretty impressive warranty for 3 years.

    First service call, engineer (not Epson btw) agrees to swap unit (but only for re-conditioned one). I agree, figuring I've still got a 3yr warranty should it fail.

    After a couple of movies I spot a stuck green pixel in the middle of the screen - bugger! I use the DVE disc to display a video black picture, lo and behold more than 20 (stopped counting then) dead pixels, all stick on green. I called Epson who agreed to swap it again (Small sub-story - I couldn't believe that I had to explain to tech support that I use this for movies not presentations. It is after all marketted as a HC PJ) Anyway you can generally sway their support guys if you make a loud enough noise and emphasise the PJ is used for movies not office presentations.

    Second service call, engineer (?) agrees excess of green pixels and unboxes another recon unit. This one is dire, lots of dead pixels - mostly green but some blue and red - but there is also a light flare in the top left corner, a permanent red "stain" in the bottom left and a scratched lens. Needless to say I rejected that unit!

    Third call, fourth PJ. This time I'm ready, so the first thing to try was the DVE video black pic. No flaring or stains on this one but - yep you guessed - loads of green pixels. PJ 4 rejected.

    By now I am seriously ranting at Epson (I'll spare you the details of that!) who propose to get my original PJ and fix the power-on problem. service manager calls me during testing asking what they should be looking for and how would they know if it had been fixed or not??? Assures me he will also do a dead pixel check, after I explain to him the best way of doing it of course!

    Finally my original PJ comes back, I'm not around to check it so have told the SO just to swap it with unit 2. Get home and picture seems ok. A later check reveals approx 4 green pixels but I'm resigned to the fact that it's about as good as it's going to get. They're only visible during extreme testing, not normal viewing so it's not the end of the world I suppose.

    After trawling the web it seems stuck on green pixels are not uncommon on Epson PJs. The 3 year next day warranty sound good but not if the replacement units are cr*p - and I told Epson as much. If PJ tech support don't help, try the normal customer support line for lack of service etc.

    My final thoughts??

    My next PJ won't be an Epson.
     
  5. dreeko

    dreeko
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    yet again i am halted just before the point of purchase of the tw10h by someones bad experience of it

    sigh!

    what am i going to buy now with my £600?


    heeeeeeeeelllp
     
  6. PjPip

    PjPip
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    312
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +8
    Don't get me wrong, I think the TW10H is a great budget PJ. It's my first PJ, the picture is certainly good enough for a first timer to still be wowed. Connectivity is excellent and I doubt similarly priced PJs can boast any particular benefit over it.

    But, it is a budget unit and I had a particularly poor experience - perhaps Epson will keep a closer eye on their sub-contractor from now on. You have to weigh up the bad experiences that internet forums attract against the hundreds of people who have a trouble free ownership.

    Unfortunately, pixel quality is one of those very sensitive subjects. You can spend a lifetime in search of perfection - providing you have the money of course :)
    Like I said, I never did a pixel check on my original unit and if it wasn't for the power-on fault I'd still be on here advocating to anyone looking for a PJ in this price range.

    If you spend your life worryong about the "what ifs! You'll never get a PJ and that would be a shame. It is still the greatest purchase a HC fan can buy!!
     
  7. dreeko

    dreeko
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    pjpip

    you have now confused me totally



    i dont know whether im coming or going
    the tw10h ticks all the boxes for my budget
    but is it worth buying if it is a dead pixelled duck further down the line

    any more comments on this machine would be very welcome

    that includes you pjpip!
     
  8. PjPip

    PjPip
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    312
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +8
    There's always a fine line between what you would like and what you can afford. In an ideal world every product would be perfect, but I for one don't live in that world.

    A 100% pixel perfect display would be ideal, in reality I am a strong believer that you should be entitled to it. But, in the real world the only way you're going to guarantee that is to pay for it and that certainly puts a lot of products out of my modest range.

    Equally, the majority of users will never know if they have dead pixels or not - most will not do a check. Unfortunately once you notice one/some it can be one of those things you can never stop looking at! Many users who frequent forums such as this are *.philes (no offence intended to anyone) people who want to ensure that they have absolutely the best picture from source to display they can possibly afford (or justify on credit!).

    IMHO some of these quests for perfection can become a bit anal - there is no way I'm going to pay £150 for a 10m component video cable when I'm using a £50 DVD player - in fact I paid £12.99. I personally fall into the category of being a bit of a gadget.phile who loves new "toys" - it doesn't have to be the best available because what I really want to do is enjoy some of my favourite movies with cinema sound and pictures. There will always be a better picture or sound available to me but you have to make your choices and pay your money sooner or later.

    I went for the Epson and as I said before it does everything I want it to and then some. My next PJ won't be an Epson because like most I expect to upgrade the spec when I change and will therefore probably have a bit more money to allow me to be a bit more choosy. I've already had a poor experience with the Epson, so why give them another chance?

    My advice to you is go buy one. Don't worry about pixel checks because that is a road that will ultimately lead to disappointment or you spending lots of money. You will not regret buying a PJ if you want to enjoy big screen pics - just look at all the favourable comments on here about A) any PJ and B) the TW10H itself. I know my PJ jas 4 green pixels but I can often not even find them anymore unless I put on a black test card to find them. If the TW10H ticks all your requirements, can you really not buy one because of the risk of 4 green pixels? Remember, these forums are full of complaints and problems because that's why many turn to places like this in the first place. Equally, if you do get a duff product you are still protected by standard consumer laws and the Epson warranty.

    I believe some retailers now offer a pixel check and pixel perfect guarantee for a small fee?

    Regards
    Pip
     
  9. psykosonik

    psykosonik
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    33
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    pjpip
    With empathy, i feel u in every way as my journey has just began, i have approx 7 days to decide what i want to do as of yet im not to concerned about the one dead sub pixel. (the retailer "DICK SMITH POWER HOUSE?" has a 14 day unsatasfactory garantee.) I'm currently deciding either to stick to this PJ, as there is no point if other makes do the same even with or with out warranty the point is im not going to be bothered to continure going back and forth to the repairer.

    if i was to spend the extra little and not purchase the primo gold amp i saw that came with a dvd player for $1200aud and put half that money towards a more reliable pj what recommendations would u consider looking into? currently the z1 or the z2 i believe made by sanyo. the z1 is apparntly letter box and not wide screen, i really enjoy the movies and games in widescreen.

    thank you all for your quick responses and dreeko, i wouldnt have purchased this projector if i knew it had pixel problems, besides that the quality of the projected image and the support of the inputs are fantastic also find out if you get the 3months dvd rentals and a epson tripod screen. I got this all for 1650aud that is a fantastic price but for budgeted people like yourself and I this seems like alot of money to be spending if you are going to be irritated about the dead sub pixels.
     
  10. psykosonik

    psykosonik
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    33
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    Oakleyspatz, thanks for your advice, im aware of the different connections and im awaiting my monster cable, and yes i got gimmiked into that. weither its a con or not ill find out as my dvd player does support 625i. which isnt bad considering im over happy about the quality of the pj. must be cos i was so used to a 68cm TV now im getting near 2m haha
     
  11. MikeRJ

    MikeRJ
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    229
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Plymouth
    Ratings:
    +1
    Seems very odd that only ever green pixles get stuck?
     
  12. PjPip

    PjPip
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    312
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +8
    Certainly implies some fundamental fault/flaw with the Epsons, or the panels they use. I did see a blue and a red on one of the PJs they sent but mostly green and I believe there are already a few posts on here somewhere about green pixels on the TW100.

    Regards
    Pip
     
  13. MikeRJ

    MikeRJ
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    229
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Plymouth
    Ratings:
    +1
    Aren't the panels fundamentaly the same part just with different colour filters?
     
  14. MikeK

    MikeK
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,231
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Ratings:
    +316
    Usually, they aren't just fundamentally the same - they are exactly the same!

    As to why a panel behind the green polarizer would fail far more often than red or blue - no idea really, the only thing I can think of off hand is perhaps a design flaw in the cooling mechanism which allows the green panel to heat up more than the others - just a guess though!
     
  15. The Fatty

    The Fatty
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2006
    Messages:
    350
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +15
    what you lot are seeing isnt dead/stuck pixels, its dust on the LCD panel. the reason why the green one has the most is because its prone to gather more dust. you can tell if its dust, as the pixel will show up on a black image, but the edges to the pixel wont be sharp. if its a dead/stuck pixel then it will have SHARP EDGES!! and will be square! al they will show up very bright on most images (except white).
     
  16. psykosonik

    psykosonik
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    33
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    definantly not dust speckles, I ended up swapping the projector around several times and on the last attempt I have had the projector for awhile now. Luckily its theres none to spot. I have had it repaired recently, but it was still in warranty so it was free.

    The projector is still running hard. I ended up getting a new globe too!
     
  17. The Fatty

    The Fatty
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2006
    Messages:
    350
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +15
    yeah me to!. when the guy came round to see my lines on my pj, he gave me a replacement which had been repaired b4, but had a new bulb in it! me thinks i'll be doing that again b4 my 3 years is up ;)
     

Share This Page

Loading...