Endgame sub upgrade

adamleon

Active Member
So I plunged for an endgame sub upgrade. A bit of background. I’m running a Focal Utopia Scala Evo front end driven by big Chord monos. Sub duties have been thanks to 2 Rel Carbon Specials at the front and a Rel 212 SX at the rear. The results were impressive. Well integrated tight bass with real slam and speed. My room is only 4.8m by 4.8m into a bay, so narrows to 3m, it’s not massive.

However I am struggling with any real response below about 27 hz where my room has quite a null. Recently listening to a friends room with his 18in DIY sub brought home the missing depths…

So arriving on Wednesday, courtesy of Nick @ The Sound Counsel are 2 Ascendo SMSG15’s (a 15in driver compared to the 12in in the Rels) and an SMSG24 infrasonic sub (a 24in driver with 6kw amp). It’s total overkill for the room size but should give huge dynamics and punch down to low teens hz with ease.

I’ll report back, but this represents my holy grail for low end response. I’m looking forward to re calibrating the room on the Trinnov to play around with crossovers, but going to start with a 60 hz roll off on the front array, with the 2 15’s handling everything including LFE down to 40hz. The 24 will then pick up everything below 40hz. I’ll set the Trinnov to treat the 3 subs as a single 3 way speaker to achieve EQ and phase so they work together.
 

adamleon

Active Member
I’ll be sad to see the Rel’s go as they are hugely capable, but they can’t compete with the sheer force from the bigger drivers here. If it isn’t better somethings wrong just from a Physics point of view!!
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Major upgrade, should blow the bloody doors off :D
 

simonb3665

Active Member
Just the one SMSG24 :) That's some serious subwoofer power in what's not a very big room (very height ceilings?) Presumably, you have some very serious speakers if you not going to cross till 60hz.
Have fun
 
Last edited:

adamleon

Active Member
Ceilings 2.5m so not that high. All surround/Atmos speakers crossed at between 80-100, only fronts 60.
 

Liammonty123

Well-known Member
Id be tempted to let cross the fronts to the 15’s a little higher, I’ve always preferred my system crossed around 100-120hz (2, 21s for subs). The 21s just do a better job below 100hz at chest slam, even though the mains could be crossed at 50 and be fine. Something to think and have a play with!
 

adamleon

Active Member
I intend to have a play. The Focal Utopia Scala Evo’s are a pretty serious speaker driven by the Chord monos so it’s a balance…I doubt I’d go any higher than 80hz regardless…we’ll see.
 

Liammonty123

Well-known Member
Fair enough, not nitpicking here but aren’t the 15’s pretty redundant if you’re crossing at 80 or below? I would’ve thought the 24 would be more than capable of an 80 or 60hz crossover?
 

adamleon

Active Member
Fair enough, not nitpicking here but aren’t the 15’s pretty redundant if you’re crossing at 80 or below? I would’ve thought the 24 would be more than capable of an 80 or 60hz crossover?
Not really no. The 15’s will deal with everything from the lfe down to 40, the front 60-40 and 7 surround channels 90-40…..! Leaving the 24 everything 10-40
But I will have a play….
 

adamleon

Active Member
Sorry 8 surround channels!
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
I think the mix will work well and you might be able to play with slopes so they blend and are all having an impact 30-50. the 24" will have as much area as 4 12's and nearly 2 18's and given the crazy excursion probably double that !
 

adamleon

Active Member
They arrive tommorow so!! Might need a few days to recover from the unboxing 😂
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
:clap::clap:
 

adamleon

Active Member
They arrived today…excuse the poor pics. The 24 is a beast!!
 

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IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
Wow ! I know how big your Focal's are that 24" is a monster !!
 

adamleon

Active Member
Ascendos all dialled in and flat response curve down to 10hz and probably below! Obviously there is a very significant improvement in the low end…it’s effortless and very tight and controlled. What shocked me was the additional detail that appeared in the other harmonics. It’s like more detail through the midrange and it’s not subtle! Some of the stress test disks are truly mind blowing and I fear for the foundations!!
The 15 and the 24 are actually faster and tighter than the Rels, which were are already good in this department. Of course the response below 30hz is in a different league…
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
Ascendos all dialled in and flat response curve down to 10hz and probably below! Obviously there is a very significant improvement in the low end…it’s effortless and very tight and controlled. What shocked me was the additional detail that appeared in the other harmonics. It’s like more detail through the midrange and it’s not subtle! Some of the stress test disks are truly mind blowing and I fear for the foundations!!
The 15 and the 24 are actually faster and tighter than the Rels, which were are already good in this department. Of course the response below 30hz is in a different league…

I bet the 24" goes well below 10 Hz
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
Ascendos all dialled in and flat response curve down to 10hz and probably below! Obviously there is a very significant improvement in the low end…it’s effortless and very tight and controlled. What shocked me was the additional detail that appeared in the other harmonics. It’s like more detail through the midrange and it’s not subtle! Some of the stress test disks are truly mind blowing and I fear for the foundations!!
The 15 and the 24 are actually faster and tighter than the Rels, which were are already good in this department. Of course the response below 30hz is in a different league…

I think a few things go on with bass that are interesting. I found running in my sub with a lot of low frequencies we actually pick up sensitivity and resolution (in our ears) so some of what goes on is in our ears.

I also think some harmonics and low frequencies seem to add scale to the image, somehow supplement tonality and realness (if that's a word !) to the midrange, including voices. If I turn off my 18, everything is a little smaller and less in the room
 

IWC Dopplel

Distinguished Member
I've just spent a few hours at Adam's having a listen to a few familiar film tracks and then watched a film - Wow, this has nothing to do with bloom or boom. Its not bloated or loose just a sense of rock solid foundation and effortless pressurisation and slam with zero overhang or any sense of compression. Voices and spatial cues were better, notably better than my last listen (pre Ascendos) and it has an ease and scale that is rarely achieved. You get exactly what is asked for and nothing not asked for and none of the compromise often associated with high volumes at low frequencies. You also realise how many low frequency systems actually deliver what is obviously on the disc, not many. My bass is good, I'm down to 5Hz with meaningful output and over 100db at the seating position at 10Hz. But this highlights that at 100db and 10Hz I'm probably asking too much of an 18' driver.

Bass isnt or shouldn't be about unresolving droan and uncontrolled boom. Reality is much more visceral than that. I have to say real and visceral fit very well with this small bijou creature, I managed to touch it without being bitten !

24%22 sub 1.jpg

24%22 sub 2.jpg
 

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