employment law - holiday entitlement

steve1

Active Member
not had much help with ACAS or citizens advice so thought i might try my luck here. does anyone know please if a uk company i work for can keep me on a accrued holiday scheme for more than one years employment im on a zero hours contract but have to accrue my holiday now with the hours i work through the year .which doesnt allow me to take any holiday in january 2022 as my holiday refreshes on january the 1st 2022 this really is a grey area and know one seems to have the answer
 

The Cods Scallops

Well-known Member
not had much help with ACAS or citizens advice so thought i might try my luck here. does anyone know please if a uk company i work for can keep me on a accrued holiday scheme for more than one years employment im on a zero hours contract but have to accrue my holiday now with the hours i work through the year .which doesnt allow me to take any holiday in january 2022 as my holiday refreshes on january the 1st 2022 this really is a grey area and know one seems to have the answer
how many hours do you usually work per week?
 

steve1

Active Member
been with the company since november 2020 and work a average of 40 hours per week every week
 

Hokusai Wave

Well-known Member
been with the company since november 2020 and work a average of 40 hours per week every week
Shouldn't be on a zero hour contract if you are working regular hours.
 

The Cods Scallops

Well-known Member
If you started on 1st Nov, you should have had 40 hours of holiday last year which would include the bank holidays. This year you should be entitled to the full allowance of 28 days including bank holidays as long as you stay all year.
 

phillyd1981

Well-known Member
Your entitled to the same amount of time as a fixed term worker and the holiday amount is calculated on your last 52 week's worth of earnings.

No fixed hours (casual work, including zero-hours contracts)A worker’s average pay from the previous 52 weeks (only counting weeks in which they were paid)
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
I'm assuming the issue is that your holiday year resets on January 1st and unlike a regular employee, you are required to accrue holiday before you can take it?

Some businesses will allow you to bank days from the previous year so that you can take holidays earlier in the year and others will allow some flexibility, but their concern is always clawing back any over payment should you take all your holiday and then leave before you have accrued it!

This is just about to make the HGV driver shortage situation much worse, as all the self employed and 0 hours drivers are about to take their holidays in July, as they've also now accrued enough days or holiday payment.

Can you talk to your manager and get some sort of local agreement on this? I would have thought it would benefit them if you want to take holiday at less popular times.
 

steve1

Active Member
Yes my issue is that my holiday resets in January and the accrued system my company is now using doesn’t allow me to take my holiday when I like as I normally use all my holiday up by end July because I don’t like taking holiday in the autumn/ winter and this new accrued scheme restricts me from taking my holiday when I choose .I understand what you’re saying regarding taking holiday then leaving but that’s a risk every company takes with employees who get their full holiday entitlement in January . From what I can see I should only be on a accrued system for my first year of employment and then on the normal holiday entitlement but my HR department are saying the accrued system is for every year and it’s such a grey area according to ACAS
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
Agreed, the guidance on the government website is no clearer.

Can you do overtime to accrue additional days as time off in lieu?

I used to work on a recruitment agency project where 90% of the workers were Hindu. Everyone wanted holiday at the same time and the nature of the business was such that we needed minimum cover at all times. The only fair way was to rotate the staff, so they would request all the holiday dates, knowing they would get 1 out of the 3 popular periods. This was done by publicly drawing lots in the canteen so it was all seen as fair, and then it was first come first served for all other dates.

Holidays can be a nightmare, so local negotiation is normally the best approach.
 

steve1

Active Member
Unfortunately no overtime available but it’s frustrating that my company have implemented this as I can’t use my holiday when I want to or be advised that I can take holiday unpaid if I’ve not accrued enough which doesn’t seem right in my book
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
I guess the question I should have asked is what does it say in your contract? This will set out the terms and conditions and any right of appeal you might have.
 

RBZ5416

Distinguished Member
If drivers are as in short supply as has been suggested, maybe a change of employer or to self-employment is the answer. Although it would have to be genuine self-employment & not some mickey mouse outfit simply looking to avoid employers NI.
 

nvingo

Distinguished Member
it’s frustrating that my company have implemented this
Was it like this when you started with them or is it a subsequent policy change?
 

steve1

Active Member
Was implemented in September 2020 2 months before I started and I know it was there before I started but I’ve never been on a accrued system before and I didn’t realise how difficult it is to booking time of when I want to
 

Belzok

Well-known Member
Was implemented in September 2020 2 months before I started and I know it was there before I started but I’ve never been on a accrued system before and I didn’t realise how difficult it is to booking time of when I want to
I'm guessing that until you compete your first year, November 2021, you won't be able to book holidays unless you have accrued days as there isn't a full year to base your average on and that's how their system works, and what is in the contract.

I'm not sure if I would consider that entirely unreasonable, as you've not been there that long.

If it remains to be the same once you've past the year mark then it is definitely unreasonable IMO.
 

RBZ5416

Distinguished Member
Assuming you're on 28 days holiday, you are allowed to carry eight days forward from this year if your employer agrees.
 

Laureline

Well-known Member
I’m looking into a grievance procedure just trying to get some legal advice

I don't see how you're going to get anywhere with a grievance procedure. It's not as is the company are doing you out of vacation.

Saying that you can't take vacation until you've earned it is legit, I've worked for a few places that had that rule. It saves them having to take the vacation out of your final pay packet
 

RBZ5416

Distinguished Member
As above, I suspect all that launching a grievance will achieve is you actually working zero hours.

Extensive discussion on LBC this afternoon about driver shortages & increased pay as a result. So if this company's practices don't suit you, look for one that does.
 

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