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Eltax Subwoofer advice!!! Urgent.

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by mujaddid, Oct 26, 2002.

  1. mujaddid

    mujaddid
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    Im considering the purchase of an Eltax Atomic A10 subwoofer.

    My budget is low £150 and I need feedback from u guys, has anyone had any experince with the Sub in question? Are there alternate subs that outperform the Atomic A10 (100W) within that price range?

    Finally im new to home cinema setups and am a little confused.

    Q: Im thinking of hooking up a Active sub (above mentioned) to the Sony STR-DB1080 AMP, are there any known issues with active amps or is it preferable to find a passive Sub?? Meaning the signal from the amp conflicting with the amp in the sub???



    http://www.techtronics.com/uk/shop/...-subwoofer.html

    http://www.techtronics.com/uk/shop/...d-receiver.html


    Thanks guys
    :confused:
     
  2. bob007

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    Hi,

    It's a shame you can't add a little bit more to your budget as there are some REL subs for sale here, the REL Q100 would be a very good purchase, you should be able to knock the sellers asking price down a little more. Something like this would really out class the Eltax Atomic sub.

    I would save a bit more than go for one of the bugdet subs, I have owend one in the past when first starting out in HC, and all it did was ruin the overall sound, in my experience it's better to have no sub than to have something that's not up to the task.

    Also have a look on the forum classifieds, there have been a few up for grabs lately as members are upgrading to Uncle Erics Velodyne range in the Power Buys Forum.



    :)
     
  3. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I agree with Bob, a poor sub is infinitely worse than no sub at all. Your budget may not be sufficient to buy a new sub but there are frequently second hand subs offered for sale in the Classified Section that are more up for the job.

    Look for Rels or Paradigms and you won't be disappointed.
     
  4. mujaddid

    mujaddid
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    Ok thanks guys, will look into it but is it really that bad???


    Also any idaes about the question on active or passive? Does having an active hooked up to an amp cause issues???



    TIA
    :p
     
  5. bob007

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    Sorry but budget subs are a waste of money, you have a decent amp so you don't really want to purchase a piece of equipment that will bring the quality of your system down. All you'll be doing is introducing a lot of boom into the room.

    You will find there are issues arising when you connect a passive sub to your amplifier, for example, these subs rely on the amp for their amplification making the amp work harder, not really ideal. With the active sub there are no issues, these have their own power and amplification and regarded the better out the two.
     
  6. mujaddid

    mujaddid
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    Thanks for clarifying this, as I thought logically that a passive would need all the addition resources etc as compared to the active. Only initial concern was the factor of the internal amp in the sub?

    But hey, that clarifies things!!!

    Any other recommendations for a slighly decent SUB, willing to push the budget now!


    :cool:
     
  7. bob007

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    REL comes straight to mind, I owend the REL Q50 for about a year and it performed very well, the Q100/Q150 are also good quality subs, raising your budget by about £75/£125 and keeping your eyes open on the classifieds you should be able to pick up a decent Q50/Q100.

    If you can hold off longer while you can add more to your budget then £325 will get you the Velodyne CHT10 from Uncle Eric in the PowerBuys, regarded as a REL Q150 beater, you only have to look at the reviews from the members that have purchased this beast to see how good it is.

    Hopefully other members will also give their recommendations on other makes/models.

    Hope you get sorted soon.



    :)
     
  8. mujaddid

    mujaddid
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    Thanks Bob007 U've been a great help!

    Just out of curiosity any views on mission subs? Live up to the name or just no good with subs?

    TIA:confused:
     
  9. bob007

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    Mission subs:

    MS8as rated at 38Hz
    MS10as rated at 38Hz
    MS70as rated at 38Hz £180
    M78as rated at 32Hz


    Going by the manufacturers specs not a lot of bass from these models, more like mid woofers, 38Hz can be reproduced by a good pair of floorstanders. Spending something like £180 on say the MS70as would be a mistake, to me it would be better spent on a s/h sub as mentioned before.

    Now the M5as is rated at 28Hz which is about the best of the bunch in terms of spec, how it sounds I have no idea, but compare that to the Velodyne at £325 I know where my money would go.

    M5as specs: £399
    Enclosure Type Reflex Loaded
    Frequency Response 3db 28Hz to 150kHz
    Cross-Over Frequency 50kHz to 150Hz
    Effective Volume 52 litres
    Nominal Impedance 8 Ohm compatible
    Int. Amplifier power 350 W/Ch
    Dimensions (HxWxD) 580 x 350 x 505 (mm)
    Finish Beech Rosewood Graphite Black



    Velodyne CHT10 specs £325
    Frequency Response: 28-120 Hz +-3 dB
    High Pass Crossover (6 dB/octave slope):
    Passive 85Hz
    Low Pass Crossover (12 dB octave, 24 dB ultimate):
    40Hz-120Hz (adjustable)
    Auto On/Off
    RMS Power: 150 watts
    Magnet: 40 oz.
    Voice Coil: 2" 4-layer copper
    Inputs: Line-level and speaker-level
    Outputs: Line-level and speaker-level
    Cabinet (H/W/D): 16.25" x 15" x 19.75"
    Weight: 53 lbs.
    Warranty: 2 years
    Finish: Black

    REL Comparison, REL 150 Model, 10"Driver, 150 watt amp. Cabinet is 11"x11"x13" Weight: 24lbs.

    Like the REL 150, this Sub also has a 10" driver and 150watt amp. However, having a slightly larger volume, the Velodyne goes lower. Superb design gives a clean low end.



    IMO the M5as wouldn't even come close to any of the REL models but as you can see from the comparison in bold by UE the Velodyne does. I couldn't see myself spending my money on any of the Mission subs. Best advice I can give would be to go and have a demo of a Mission sub then have a listen to a REL/Velodyne, there is a big difference between a good sub and a bad sub (boom boxes). :)
     
  10. MikeK

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    While any debate about subwoofers will inevitably bring up the names of REL and Velodyne, that doesn't, IMO, mean that anything not sporting such a badge is, by default, crap and therefore a waste of money.


    Not sure about the m5as (haven't heard one) - Personally I don't think I'd buy it - but that's just because it's huge and looks like a mini washing machine :)
    It was recently posted that this could be bought mail order for £300, which, considering it's a real wood veneered unit too (AFAIK), does make it seem very good value.
    It's no lightweight either, weighing in at a porky 80lbs.



    HifiBitz have the Monitor Audio ASW100 on offer for £150 too.
    While it may not be as good as any of the previously mentioned units, it is only £150. Depends what you want at the end of the day, and how much you are prepared to pay for it!
     
  11. bob007

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    I can only recommend what I have previously owned/heard, which is a couple of boom boxes Yamaha and Aiwa, and ones sporting badges which are a REL Q50 and the Velodyne CHT15 which I'm running at the moment.

    Spending £180 on a sub that has trouble reaching 38Hz to me IS a waste of money and should be given a wide berth, didn't actually say the sub was crap, the specs said it for me.
    If I can direct a member in the right direction I will, there are a few exceptions where a make/model of sub below the £400 comes up with the goods, therefore the second hand market is the best place to start when a member has a lowish budget. Budget subs do no justice to a system.
     
  12. MuFu

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    I'd go for that £240 REL Q100E on loot.com. That's the price I paid for mine - absolute bargain.

    MuFu.
     
  13. Brox

    Brox
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    I've recently seen a Kef 30b at hyperfi for £179 that is a real bargain as they used to retail at £500, knowing Hyperfi they've probably sold out though.

    Although this is contrary to most other opinions, unless a subwoofer is particularly bad, I just do not agree that a budget subwoofer is worse than no subwoofer at all.

    I remember my first sub was a Yamaha sw75? which dramatically increased my viewing pleasure I bought it for £75 secondhand and I was happy for a long time. In the begining I wouldn't have known a bad subwoofer from a good one, so I suppose I was happy in my ignorance.

    It's all very well being 'purist' except when you're on a budget
     
  14. bob007

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    Budget subs with frequency ranges of 38Hz aren't subwoofers in my book, you can get this performance from good standmount/floorstanders, so adding one of these will not enhance your system. Very few if any budget subs £200 or less out there will give you true bass of any depth, you need big boxes and big drivers, all this porting and servo technology found on the budget subs is false and produces boom not bass. Once you have heard real bass then recommending the option to run a system with no sub if a good quality sub can't be bought makes sence.
    My first sub was an Aiwa TSW-50 and cost me £180, biggest waste of money I have spent on HC equipment, then I went for a Yamaha YSTSW150 £279, thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, but it wasn't till I upgraded to a REL Q50 that my views on subs changed. I have learnt though my mistakes and will pass on my experiences to other members that look to be going down the same road I did.
    This is why I will recommened the S/H sub such as the REL to members with lowish budgets, they can make their first purchase/upgrade to a sub that is regarded as one of the best on the market without paying £400 > £800, but paying a small fraction.

    Brox,

    What sub do you own now?
     
  15. MikeK

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    The MA sub for £150 does 27Hz, as does the perrennial budget favourite, the Paradigm PDR10 (specs sheet figures though!!!)
    And that's one of the problems IMO - you can't rely on just a spec sheet. Perhaps you could if they were all measured the same way, and all the manufacturers were totally transparent about their specs - but they aren't.

    I don't disagree that REL make/have made some good subs - it's just that I don't think it's fair to say everything else is rubbish, just because REL are good, and that something can't be any good unless it costs X pounds or more.
    Personally I think it's all a matter of degree - I wouldn't argue that a S/H Q100 would be better than say a new PDR10, but then you are probably spending more, and you get b** all warranty.
    Richer Sounds get some bad press for some things, but you could buy a PDR10 warrantied for 3 years not long ago, for about £180 (less if you got one of the WHF vouchers) - and for someone on a budget, IMO, that's not a bad deal.

    While it may not be capable of going toe to toe with your CHT15 (it is only a quarter the price though, and a lot smaller), I'd rather have a PDR10 in a budget system than no sub at all, unless I had particularly bass capable floorstanders and a suitably powerful AV amp (and assuming that bass wasn't all the floorstanders were good at :) ).

    True, I suppose once you've had a sub like your CHT15 in your system, it may be difficult to give something like the PDR10 the time of day, but for someone just looking to add a bit of impact to their movie watching for a modest outlay on their budget system, it'll probably fit the bill quite nicely. Likewise the MA sub.
     
  16. bob007

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    I don't recall calling everything else rubbish just because REL were good. What I did say was with a budget of approx £150 - £200 a second hand REL would be far better than the Mission MS70as. The other point I was making was with the budget subs you don't get much performance for your money, poor specs and deem them a waste of money. I also said that there were a few exceptions in the budget range, but not being familiar with other products hoped other members would give there input.
    It has nothing to do with what I own or what I would give the time of day for, my posts were advice and recommendations to help out a member by steering him away from budget subs when his budget could get him a second hand REL which I consider 10 times better.
     
  17. Brox

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    I think this statement kind of proves my point. It's not until you upgrade that you realise the deficiancies of your current sub! But at least yopu can be happy until you do listen to something at a higher price point.
     
  18. bob007

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    It proves I too was ignorant in the beginning :) so I try and advise those starting out into the world of HC not to make the same mistakes.

    As for being happy with the sound untill you listen to something at a higher price, this the point I've been trying to make, you don't necessary need to pay a higher price. Take the YSTSW150@£279 look what I could have got instead if I were to go the second hand route. IMO second hand is a better way to go if you are buying/upgrading your first sub on a lowish budget.

    ;)
     
  19. Brox

    Brox
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    Bob I totally agree with you on the second hand route, If you are in not too much of a hurry it's the best way to go for sure, I have bought a lot of secondhand stuff over the years and never been disappointed.

    I think the Kef is a very good deal though.
     
  20. mansell

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    Mujaddid ,

    I HAVE a A10 Sub and can honestly say that it spoils my system. It does sound powerful but the bass sounds boomy and I regret buying it , sometimes I switch it off altogether as my M72 Standmounters provide a good level of bass anyway.

    If I where you I would wait and save up a bit more

    Panasonic TX32PB50
    Marantz SR5200
    Toshiba 210ED
    Amstrad DRX300
    Mission M72
    Mission M7C
    Mission M7ds
    Eltax Atomic A10 Sub
    AIWA VCR
    Gale SPKR cables
    IXOS Scart
     
  21. petrolhead

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    In my opinion, if you are on a tight budget I would go with a Paradigm PDR10.

    I have one and would have no hesitation in recommending it to anyone. They also come up for sale on this site.

    Finding a new one may be difficult but try your local Richer Sounds
     
  22. Tejpal

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    Paradigm PDR10 about £180 from richer sounds. I have heard it, and it is very good, its quite small to. It has won lost of awards too.

    I would recommend it. But I have only demoed in in richer sounds for it about 15 mins.

    And I didnt compare with any other sub. So I may not be 100% correct.

    PS. I normally try to stay away from eltax budget stuff, its noramaly crap.
     
  23. Ian J

    Ian J
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    To summarize, you had a demo of this sub and can therefore recommend it but as you didn't compare it to anything else you aren't sure whether you can recommend it or not.
     
  24. bob007

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    LOL :D
     
  25. Tejpal

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    Ian, Im not sure if you are being sarcastic, or explaining my post to people

    :confused:
     
  26. bob007

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    I would say a bit of both. I have compared it with posts from other members but not compared it with any of Ians posts. I may not be 100% correct. :D ;)
     
  27. whoami

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    take a stab at the latter of the 2 options;) ;)
     
  28. mujaddid

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    Guys, dudes and bob007................................


    Thanks a great deal, I didnt anticipate this much feedback but its all been very constructive. Ill demo the subs before I buy and im sure I can nudge my budget a fair bit more. The REL's are truely in a class of their own as I had the chance to demo one round a mates place.


    Thanxs again!!!!


    ;)
     
  29. MuFu

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    There's a REL Q100E for sale on this forum for £250 (starting price!). Please buy it and make me happy as I can't afford another one. :( ;)

    MuFu.
     

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