Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by General Skanky, Aug 28, 2001.
What is their website address please?<br />Thanks.
<a href="http://www.screensuk.co.uk" target="_blank">www.screensuk.co.uk</a> or look in the current sponsor list (bottom of the menu on the left).
Thanks Spectre. I found ScreensUK already and taken it all onboard.<br />What I should have asked more clearly is, what is the site for Ellie themselves? I know they do other models and am interested to see what's what.
Since The Event it seems apparant to me that the top two contenders for me are the Ellie at £4000 and the Seleco 350 at just under £4000. I've been searching all over for more detailed info, but it's not that easy to come by.
I've found a couple of reviews and dealer 'notes' but no more.<br />So really I'm after as much info on these two CRT models as poss. They look too good to be true. I can't afford a Barco! 2nd hand would be nice, but I'd be going in blind on that one.
Jenz's site was actually a mine of info (review kit pages) on size, installation etc. As a few days ago I knew almost nothing on projectors, I'm learning very fast. So much of it. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
[ 28-08-2001: Message edited by: General Skanky ]</p>
For what it's worth I've seen the Ellie in action and for the money it takes some beating, using the s-video input the picture was on a par with my previous projector (Seleco SDG700). The built in line-doubler is very good, I don't recall the 350 being capable of line-doubling. However, if the SVD500 is still available in the classifieds I would suggest you check it out, especially if using a HTPC is an option you are considering. I understand your reservations about buying used kit, if you are unsure of how to check out the projector why not ask if there is a forum member who can help you out.
The Seleco does not have line doubling, but has alledgedly a quieter fan than originally, and a handy onboard tuner. I could use my VCR but it's an extra that is built in worth considering. Good value for the money, from what I've read so far.
The Ellie has a line doubler but no component inputs, but I think there is an optional extra from Screens UK available for this.
A second hand Barco would be excellent at the right price. I now have a couple of leads to follow up on that.
My biggest problem now is learning the applications of 4:3 and 16:9 signals through a projector to a screen, as well as things which I take for granted on the TV like Teletext. <br />It's a steep learning curve and a lot to take in and remember, but I'm getting there slowly.
For ref, I'll initially be using a Yamaha S795 DVD with S Video out. The projector that we'd end up with hopefully will have component inputs for future upgrades. Don't even start on me about scalers etc etc, as per The Event else my head will hurt more. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Of course all this will be to a price. So if anyone wants to sell us a Barco Cine 7 for £5 call now. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
You should be able to pick up a used Barco 708 (same spec as a cine 7, not quite as pretty) reasonably from Roland or one of the other dealers. I wouldn't bother with the Seleco 300 range. You would get a guarantee, which would give you peace of mind. Definately a good way to go. For the record, I picked up a second hand 808 for the same price that I paid for a new Seleco 310. I think you can guess which one looked the best
PS You still owe me a beer <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
Hey General,<br />There is/was a secondhand SVP400 for sale by someone who went to The Event. I believe they upgraded to an 808 from Roland.
The s/h 400 would make a better choice than a 350. Projectors don't make great everyday TV sets, so feature like Teletext soon lose their appeal.
Between the Ellie and the 400 I think I'd go for the 400. It will do more with a 16:9 screen and respond better to upgrades like external doublers/scalers.
Here is the site<br /><a href="http://www.maxivideotech.it/" target="_blank">http://www.maxivideotech.it/</a>
[ 28-08-2001: Message edited by: Paul ]</p>
Thanks for the site.
That's a good point I meant to ask about, proj. not making good everyday TV sets.<br />If we get one, the TV will have to go. Text isn't vital, it's just something else to know about when a TV goes and a proj. comes in.<br />It's why I wondered about aspect ratios etc. TV's use auto modes to make a pic fit as it were. How, if at all does a proj do that? Am I wrong in saying that it's set up intially by sizing for each input and stored? Ie, TV memory 1 will be 4:3, Sky memory 2 in 16:9, DVD no.3 in 16:9 and so on. Then you toggle through the memory you want for what you are watching. I take it that as in TV's, it's all a compromise as to what looks best. 16:9 would be our prefered default, so slightly 'stretched' TV people is ok. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <br />Watching in the dark is ok as we have to draw the curtains anyway.
[ 29-08-2001: Message edited by: General Skanky ]</p>
It seems your plans have already "upgraded" since Sunday, when you were considering the little Sharp. Must have been the topic of conversation on the way home..........
Glad to see that you are actively considering taking the plunge. You'll never look back.
For me, I still recommend having a small TV as well as the projector. You can use this for non-critical material (like the News, Soaps, etc) and more especially, for time-shifted stuff on VHS (which looks cr*p on a big screen), without unnecessarily compromising the life of your projector.
If space is at a premium, you could take a look at the LG LE15A10. This is a 15 inch flatscreen LCD TV with teletext and NICAM. Takes up no room at all (hardly) and sells for £900 in Dixons - less elsewhere (of course).
If you do fancy getting a small LCD TV to supliment your projector you may be interested in the range of LCD monitors from <a href="http://www.neovo.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.neovo.co.uk/</a> . The S-15V and M-15V models have s-video inputs and start at under 570 GBP, they also have to option of a TV tuner for an additional 80 quid.
This is probably the route that I will take when I get a projector. Part of my justification to the missus of getting a projector is to rid the living room of a big ugly TV, so something like the Neovo would be ideal for catching the news/soaps etc. . .
I/we chamged plans once we found out other options available in CRT! The Sanyo was a knockout and has loads going for it. However, I'm looking at it all to see what else can be had for the money.
The TV would go all together. So CRT with a longer lamp life would be the one. I know vcr etc can look poor, but I'm willing to suffer that. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
And just like you said nigel, we'll get the living room back. Your sony by the way is doing the rounds new for about £4k in some places. That was a good unit. However, we come back to the TV problem. I don't really want a little one. Having lived with big screen stuff now, anything else just won't do. Anyway, it wasn't me that wanted a projector, her exact words were whilst watching the Cine 7...'I want one of those...'
<img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <br />Sorry Simon, 'my' other half is on my side on this one. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
[ 30-08-2001: Message edited by: General Skanky ]</p>
Oh, so it's Mrs Skanky's fault......
I still think you'll miss having a TV - something you can switch on briefly in daylight to see the weather, lottery numbers, news, etc. Honestly, you won't want to draw the curtains and power up your Cinema just for this, and it would be reasonable to assume that, whatever projector you buy, it won't be watchable in anything other than near-total darkness. However, it's your house and your cash.
If you are interested (and I know it's a long way) you can call and see what I did. I live near Worksop.
General, you have a great wife!<br />Some points. Re the earlier points in this topic about Ellie - Ellie is the 'brand' made specifically for Screens UK by (I think) MaxiVideo as Paul says. So you won't find 'Ellie projector' searches taking you anywhere else.<br />We have a Barco CRT in our dedicated cinema room, but before it was ready, we had it in the living room and the screen came down infront of our 25" telly. I would say that having a TV aswell is pretty important because the 'full on' experience of the projector is best saved for movies.<br />I don't think I'd want to power up the 5.1 system just so the toddler can watch Teletubbies.<br />I picked up a 32" 100Hz Tosh telly second hand for £200 in the classifieds pages, so as we all know, it's worth looking round for bargains.
I have a NEC9PG and find it quite watchable with the curtains open, the thing to avoid is bright light striking the screen. I use the projector as an every day TV and don't find it much of a problem, Pronto makes it easy as long as there isn't someone there that will leave it on a static picture all night etc (i.e. kids)
As for screen ratios that will depend on the scaler. On my 16-9 screen I am using a quadscan, it has 3 modes, first is 16-9 zoom where top&bottom is chopped off, second is 16-9 squeeze which is what is used for viewing anamorpic material, third is 4-3 inside 16-9 which has black bars down the outside. On the projector there is one memory for NTSC & one for PAL and it auto detects so only one button every has to be pressed to select aspect. If you watch a lot of poor quality material or want to watch stuff in it's original 4-3 aspect the last option can be handy.
I would say there are other ways to get different aspect ratios using the projector (I think) but I was just giving you an example of how my particular setup works.
Thanks Garry. That'll help.
At the moment we close the curtains anyway, turn on the amp, (obligatory!) and 'power' it all up every time. So, it should be ok.<br />I can't remember the last time we used the TV audio! Or watched ITV! It's all sky or DVD/LD.
So it's eyes out for a good Barco or Ellie/Seleco etc. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
One question though. For all those with a projector on the ceiling, just how long is the power lead that comes with it? I'm sure I'll have to make up a longer one!
"just how long is the power lead that comes with it?"
Nowhere near long enough. You could take a spur off the upstairs ringmain and install a fixed socket on (or in) the ceiling nearby, or make up a long extension lead with a trailing socket and route it up to near the projector. Ideally, you shouldn't run a mains cable parallel to your video signal cables as it can cause interference, depending on the quality of screening in your cables.
Sorry General,<br />Wasn't ignoring you, just been away on business for a few days.
Re: the Aspect Ratio thing: I haven't come across any projectors (yet) that auto-switch for 16:9, but most projectors allow you to toggle through different modes until you get the one that looks right.
>> Sorry Simon, 'my' other half is on my side on this one.
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one. My girlfriend actually offered me money to pick up my Sony 1271.
I've actually seen the Seleco 350's at a lot of pubs around my town, and my 1271 is far better quality and only cost me £1.5K!
I wish I could of made The Event though :-(
I believe that there is actually an optimum size for both TV and film viewing in a home theatre set-up. I know because over the years I have had several different sizes of screen. 40 inches is too small. It's better than 26 but the threshold for what I would call the truly big screen experience is 50 inches or greater for 4:3.
Most films and TV programmes, while interspersed with long shots and close ups are predominantly comprised of medium shots. On my 55 inch Toshiba rear projection set humans are pretty much life size. Newscasters, on-location news reports, Anneka Rice on Treasure Hunt, singers on Top of the Pops, Jim Kirk on the bridge of the Enterprise, they are all the size they would be if they were standing at one end of your living room. Watching "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" on between 55 and 60 inches (4:3) again the players and Chris Tarrant are life size, like just another face around the dining table.
But be warned, sometimes this can be a two edged sword. A programme about World War 2 in colour had some shots of some bodies in a train at Dachau and they were so real, especially in colour, that it was as though you were standing by the carriage looking in. That was one occasion when the images invited into my living room could be said to be TOO realistic.
There is no way those shots would have had such an impact on a 12 inch portable nor - and this is the point - on an Imax screen either. If your image size goes too high believe it or not you begin to lose some of the realism. What you gain in spectacle you lose in immediacy.
The advent of widescreen presents the discerning home cinema enthusiast with a dilemma. A widescreen picture needs to be roughly the same height as a 4:3 55" image but ideally about three times the width to retain that life size medium shot ratio. That makes every rear projection or normal widescreen TV available too small, even the biggest ones. You have to have a front projector. There ceases to be an alternative. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Oh it has far more to do with the Ellie than you think. It was just that I thought my post was getting a bit long and I thought no one would read it uncurtailed and split up...
No I haven't seen it yet but I have owned CRT sets in the past and they are wonderful beasts. The relevance is that in order to get an 8 foot wide anamorphic display of say Gladiator, it sounds like I would have to have a 6 foot high x 8 foot wide 4:3 picture and that would be simply too large.
I downloaded the manual and saw that the Ellie has different settings and resolutions so the hope is that it could be setup at the convergence stage to have a slightly smaller width and height when non-anamorphic. Does anyone know if this is possible? Otherwise I'll have to go for an inferior system which at least would have a zoom lens.
Virtually any digital convergence chassis CRT projector can do multiple sizes and aspect ratio's within reason.
The analogue chassis'd Ellie has some size adjustment as you have noted. You'd have to check with Jim as to whether it'll do exactly what you want.
Hi Wil,<br />I can answer the question about scaling a 4:3 picture within the 16:9 frame as I own an Ellie XS 2000HT myself. The answer is NO! The width remains the same as 16:9, only the height changes. Width/height adjustments can be saved into individual memory banks but not enough to accommodate the scaling that you require. However, the new digital XS 3000HT model as far as I know can scale 4:3 into 16:9 and vice-versa! ..and Wow, what a projector!<br />Personally, I prefer to see the old films such as Casablanca in its original 4:3 format without loosing the width. I suppose if I hadnt got used to the large 4:3 picture I would perhaps want to watch TV Video scaled down to 16:9 height. Who knows?
Thanks for the replies. I would be grateful to know roughly what percentage reduction is possible. Like you, I suspect, it is not that I prefer widescreen over 4:3. I just want to see films as the director intended and hate cropping of any kind. I have never had a problem with black bars any more than I have a problem with the walls the pictures hang on in an art gallery!
Horizontal and vertical scaling even of 10 per cent would be better than nothing but anything which chops off any of the actual image is not on.
I couldn't afford the digital Ellie. I suppose I can't really afford the standard Ellie (but then I couldn't afford my Toshiba 55" or my Videologic DTS, or my DVD player and collection etc. but I'm AWFULLY glad I splashed out for them anyway. My wife and friends all tell me that they already know I'll buy one. I'm just the last to admit it to myself but they know!)
My wife is fantastic. I overheard her talking to her sister about my current rear projector TV on the 'phone and she said "It's big, ugly, completely over the top but I'm glad he's getting it because he works hard and I know he'll relax, even if it's just to watch a film."
When it arrived she loved it, especially when her girly friends came over to watch "An Affair to Remember."
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