Electromagnetic treatment for hard water - anyone tried one?

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RMCF

Distinguished Member
I have very hard water, complete with limescale building up on my kettle element inside 1 week of use, and was wondering if it was worth a punt buying one of these thingees

EMWC -Limescale Removers - System 30 Limescale Eliminator

Reading reviews, they are a mix of "Its fantastic" or "They are complete rubbish".

With the money back guarantee I might take a chance, but I am a sceptic.
 

Toko Black

In Memoriam
It's utter nonsense based on make believe that is not scientifically supported.

The same old baffle people with psuedoscience and part them with their cash at work.
 
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RMCF

Distinguished Member
It's utter nonsense based on make believe that is not scientifically supported.

The same old baffle people with psuedoscience and part them with their cash at work.

Get off the fence and tell me what you think ;)
 

IronGiant

Moderator
I fitted one and the kettle was definitely less scaley. But it wasn't like night and day, it still scales up, but more slowly. Of course I might be highly suggestible and just imagining it :) Don't buy one thinking it will save the Giant Panda from extinction and you should be OK.
 

Solar

Well-known Member
HOW IT WORKS
Simply plug the transformer supplied into a standard 13 amp 3 pin plug socket. Using low frequency radio waves pioneered by our research and development team, the System 30 generates induction energy which alters the characteristics of the hardness salts. Instead of forming limescale the salts stay in solution and existing scale goes into suspension and is gradually removed from the system, leaving a scale free home at a cost you can afford. The Limescale Eliminator can be fitted onto copper and all plastic pipes.
Sounds like complete bull to pull in the suckers.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
i suspect limescale may not be magnetic or not contain magnetic particles ...........

I suspect you are correct :) But metals don't need to be magnetic to be affected by a magnetic field ;)
 

Andyh4324

Well-known Member
There are 3 types of these scale inhibitors. None of them will stop scale formation completely, only slow it up.

Magnetic- waste of time, magnets affect iron

Electronic- ones with the wires wrapped round the pipes, do seem to work to an extent by slowing up the formation of scale if you get the ones that vary the frequency as at some point in the scale it is right for the hardness of water and the amount/flow of water passing through it

Electrolytic- not sure on these but i can see the thinking behind it working
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Mine is an electronic one and I can assure you it cost a lot,lot less than £80 :laugh:
 

Toko Black

In Memoriam
I suspect you are correct :) But metals don't need to be magnetic to be affected by a magnetic field ;)

Lots of things can be affected by magnetic fields, including our brains ;) but when you really look into the actual background and evidence for these devices you get a lot of waffle and no real science.
According to the studies, there is no reproducable test that has shown them to work.
Some trials have shown minor improvements of some devices, but equally when repeated elsewhere have failed to reproduce the same results.

There may well be some processes at work that potentially do affect limescale, but the makers and sellers of these devices don't have a clue what it is, how it works or what factors affect it, so how they can design affective devices and charge money for them is beyond me.
 
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IronGiant

Moderator
Lots of things can be affected by magnetic fields, including our brains ;) but when you really look into the actual background and evidence for these devices you get a lot of waffle and no real science.
According to the studies, there is no reproducable test that has shown them to work.
Some trials have shown minor improvements of some devices, but equally when repeated elsewhere have failed to reproduce the same results.

There may well be some processes at work that potentially do affect limescale, but the makers and sellers of these devices don't have a clue what it is, how it works or what factors affect it, so how they can design affective devices and charge money for them is beyond me.

I dunno... All I know is I used to have to clean the limescale out of my kettle every week, then someone sold me some magic beans for £10 and I haven't had to clean it for the last 10 years.
 

Toko Black

In Memoriam
I dunno... All I know is I used to have to clean the limescale out of my kettle every week, then someone sold me some magic beans for £10 and I haven't had to clean it for the last 10 years.

Maybe there is something about your particular kettle or environement that either individually or holistically makes it work.

However, according to the research, what seemed to work in one test didn't work in another, and there is no reasonable explination as to why.

Some devices seem to work some don't, the ones that work only seem to work for some people not others.

The product is being sold with an explination that is clearly not really understood by any of those making or selling them .... ie it is utter nonsense.

If there is something we know sometimes works but don't know why or how, simply taking that thing and claiming to have 'designed' a product that is fit for purpose is a lie.

It may be that local water additives affect the outcome, the particular pipe dimensions, materials, pressure or heat.

They people making these products haven't a bloody clue yet are making and selling them like they do.

I am sure you are aware that I could probably find annectdotal evidence that putting healing crystals into your water cistern increased your chances of pregnancy, but unless we can see a repeatable benifit, then it's down to luck and chance that these things work.
 
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IronGiant

Moderator
Mine works, so I don't really lose any sleep over it :) It's been sitting there quietly for ten years keeping my kettle clean. If you think they don't work I won't burst your bubble.

I've had a vasectomy, so crystals won't work... Anecdotal evidence would suggest I'm sterile.
 
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Toko Black

In Memoriam
Mine works, so I don't really lose any sleep over it :) It's been sitting there quietly for ten years keeping my kettle clean. If you think they don't work I won't burst your bubble.

I've had a vasectomy, so crystals won't work...

As I said, they may work in some circumstances, but not in all according to research and clearly the people making them don't know why.

Hence they are selling nonsense.

It's like a tv set that miraculously picks up a picture.

It seems to work some places but not others, other manufacturers replicate the box but again seemingly random sucess.

If I started selling those and declaring some psuedoscience mumbo jumbo as to why it worked, I would expect people to call me on it.
Just because the tv set worked in some places, I still wouldn't expect a scientifically minded person to declare that the mumbo jumbo the manufacturers were spouting was real.

If there is something that works, they don't understand it or how to implement it properly.
The so called science behind it is mumbo jumbo, whether in some cases they work or not.

If they were honest and said they weren't sure how it worked, but for some people it does and you could give it a try, then fair enough - but making up drivel to make it sound like it is based on clear scientific knowledge is a lie and something I believe strongly should be castegated.

For all those that it does work, there will be many that according to the studies it will not work for. Out of those, many will believe it has had an effect even though it hasn't, because they spent good money on it and we have a habit of convincing ourselves that if we spent time and engergy on something it was worth it. There is also the strong affect of authority given by the so called science that makes people not question the results. This means there are people parting with cash and being under the mistaken belief their washing machines and kettles are being damaged less. That is unfair and based on lies.
 
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jenam93

Well-known Member
Mine works, so I don't really lose any sleep over it :) It's been sitting there quietly for ten years keeping my kettle clean. If you think they don't work I won't burst your bubble.

I've had a vasectomy, so crystals won't work... Anecdotal evidence would suggest I'm sterile.

Would you mind unplugging it for a week and seeing if your kettle needs descaling again?

If it does then let us know the magic product :smashin:
 

Toko Black

In Memoriam
Oxfordshire water is very naive, because it responds to the placebo effect,,,,:laugh:

very drole.

Can you explain why if people are given a £100 filter that attaches to an audio lead they will hear an improvement even if they filter is nothing but an empty box with straight through wires ?

If something works for you but not for another person, and no one can explain why, is it fair and honest to sell it claiming a scientific basis in order to convince people to buy it ?

Again - I have not said it doesn't work at all in any circumstances.
Only that it doesn't seem to be replicatable - that there seem to be too many other factors at play and no explination as to what they are or how they interact.

Claiming to understand something and claiming science backs it up when it doesn't is a lie.

Just because you are clever enough to know if something has had a decernable affect and not be fooled is no indication that the public at large will react the same way.
Infact, studies show that a percentage of the population can be convinced something is better looking, tasting, affective etc purely by being informed that something has been added to change things.
This has been demonstrated many times.

That means there are going to be people for whom this does not work, yet convince themselves it has and therefore will waste money and risk damaging appliances long term.
 
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Toko Black

In Memoriam
..and Iron Giant has not said it *does* work in all circumstances.


..and its 'droll'

Is it ? Thanks for that pendantic waste of typing. IG is a big boy and doesn't need the [-]bottom inspectors[/-] spelling police to stick up for him.

The inference from IG was that since it works for him that I can't call it nonsense and that it doesn't work.
That statement doesn't require IG to have said it does work in all circumstances, only that it could be infered from his response to me that he has assumed I was proposing the opposite.

I stated that what the manufacturers and sellers of these products say is 'nonsense'.
 
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IronGiant

Moderator
I share your concerns that they are not necessarily the universal panacea that the manufacturers/sellers would have us believe. :thumbsup:
 
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