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EH50, DVD-RAM or DVD-RW if using PC to edit ?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Merlin, Jun 28, 2005.

  1. Merlin

    Merlin
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    Just about to plump for EH50 and get this quandary so need some advice here please !
    I shall be recording from TV and converting VHS/Betamax to the Panny EH50 etc if I get it. Whilst usually keeping these recordings intact, less adverts, I wish for some to COPY out (duplicate out) selected footage and assemble as one batch of meaty footage then write it to DVD in such a way as I can add more of the same subject matter to that DVD as I find it. I may keep the source documentary, or zap it afterwards.

    I am considering doing this on the PC as I use Adobe Premiere for video editing. I am told that VR mode is required for transfer to PC of any footage to retain its editability. The panny writes VR only to DVD-RAM.
    My top of the range Plextor PX708A on the PC reads DVD-RAM :smashin: but doesnt write it :thumbsdow . DVD-RAM writing is not a PC thing I am told ! :( If I use the PC for the editing out of footage and assembly of bits, I cannot write it back to DVD-RAM, only non editable MPEG2.

    To then add more bits to a MPEG2 DVD, can I multisession it like cd ?

    ..or perhaps do editing all on the Panny, duplicating extracts and placing into folders until I have enough to write to DVD ? is that possible ?...trouble is screen time , others hog the box !...also its only 80Gb, so storage of clips could soon fill up ?

    DVD-RAM seems a dying media according to media sellers, :eek: Might I be better off looking for a DVD-RW VR writing DVD/HDD combo? PC World is all RW stuff, did find one small pile of DVD-RAM eventually.

    DVD-RAM is the best media for this I am told, but its limiting, its a one way ticket.

    Is DVD RW, whether + or -, a solution here then, or is VR on RW not as good as on RAM ?, if RW best route for PC usage then thats the EH50 down the pan, so now what ?

    What route should I take ?
    Merlin
     
  2. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    DVD-RAM VR mode is the same as DVD-RW VR mode, so if your PC reads a DVD-RAM discs there is no advantage in getting a recorder that uses DVD-RW VR mode. All you need to do is get the video off the disc on to your computer, DVD-RAM will let you do this as you have a reader that will take DVD-RAM. It is unlikely you would want to put the video back to DVD-RAM from your computer as then you will only be able to play that in your Panasonic recorder as most DVD Players spit DVD-RAM back out. So DVD-RAM being one way is true, but you have the hardware for that to not be a problem

    You can then use a variety of DVD software packages to edit the footage on your computer, and can then write that back to DVD-RW/+RW in a way that should be playable on most DVD Players for testing and temporary storage, and you can also bring it back to your computer and add more video. Once you have all the clips you can then burn to a DVD-R or +R disc for permanent storage and greater compatibility.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  3. Merlin

    Merlin
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    Thanks PhilipL.

    I had considered getting an LG 16x GSA4163BB DVD-RAM writer as then I could use just the one media, back and forth PC to Panny, playing it on the panny, with option of editing the contents, placing similar footage all together as and when acquired to play in one go. This means spending £40 but may be advantageous to me allowing eh50 to be bought. Friends would be given a DVD-R if need be, not a normal need though.

    Alternatively as you suggest

    DVD-RAM for input to PC, DVD-RW for output from PC, multisession DVD-RW to keep adding footage from the DVD-RAM inputs after editing. Additions would simply tack on to the end of existing footage, or is it possible to put more footage of a subject next to existing footage of the same subject to all play together using menus etc. I am new to DVD authoring so can this method match the DVD-RAM collective placement of similar clips ?

    I must also ensure that the DVD-RW footage needs no further editing as its not so good once its MPEG.

    Merlin
     
  4. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Merlin,

    If you get the EH50 you could use DVD-RAM as a temporary storage medium for you material until you have a DVDs worth. Record onto the EH50 HDD in whatever quality mode you deem appropriate and, if you want to keep it, dub to DVD-RAM until you have all the material you want. You can dub losslessly to/from the EH50 HDD and DVD-RAM so that when you have your final project you can compile from multiple DVD-RAMs onto the HDD and dub to a DVD-R/-RW. Or alternatively import direct onto your PC from the DVD-RAM disc (see the Guide in my signature for assistance!).

    I would suggest avoiding trying to use multi-session recording on any +/- disc - but it's your choice :)
     
  5. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    DVD-RW/+RW will allow you to append video and edit on the disc while all the time being able to be played on a DVD Player, this is referred to as Fast Editable or +VR mode depending on the software, this isn't multi-session as such but does work.

    However you may as well leave the footage on the computer until you have a disc-full, it isn't wise to trust removable media to such practices if it is your only copy as, 1) There isn't any defect management as DVD Players don’t support this, and 2) It is open to user error, i.e. accidentally erasing something you wanted, or your software package destroying the contents if it crashes!

    Regards

    Philip
     
  6. Merlin

    Merlin
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    Rasczak, thanks for the advice. and the guide. I had been told about the LG burner.

    I have looked into getting the Toshiba your list mentions,...Tosh UK tell me it doesnt burn DVD-RAM :thumbsdow

    panny 9585...but its oem and tricky to get, panasonic UK say I will have to track down necessary software myself as oem doesnt have any...and Pinnacle Instant DVD has not got it in the supported list :eek: , in fact no pannys in that list. :eek:

    LG GSA 4163B not in that list either. oh dear :eek:

    Am I right in thinking that one must not get a burner unless ones burning software supports it.
    I use Pinnacle for udf, and I gather DVD-RAM is good for udf.

    If this device replaces my dead Plextor 708A then it must read my existing udf discs. ..or I install the free replacement as its under warranty anyway so have two if ok within pc, feasible I think. but still the dvd-ram burner needs to be on the supported list for the dvd burning prog...does it ? :confused: :confused:

    Is there a dvd burning prog you know supports the LG, or panny ?
    That might be the way forward ? :)

    I have ground to a halt on this aspect of not supported, Pinnacle have vast lists of burners but these are not there. Forgot that one cannot just plug 'em in. help :lease:


    Editing hopes...
    As getting access to the Tv for using the eh50 for editing is nigh impossible until midnight, I shall have to do all my extracting of juicy clips from documantearies etc on the PC. Not wishing to mop up HD space I envisaged writing the results of each evenings editing back to the DVD-RAM. Assembling all my 2 second clips in one folder called subject A, another for subject B etc, and then when I play this they all play together in one go. But I bet its not as easy as that ! ...is it ?
    To have a chapter for each 2 second clip, subject A would be chapA1, A2, A3....A56 ! then making a playlist to make all these play together, sound longwinded and tricky or is it ?

    PhilipL, cheers.
    Perhaps forget the dvd-ram burner ?..edit out the clips, then burn to dvd-rw as mpeg2. Just not sure how all my subject A clips (2 secs or so) can be played as one on the TV or PC with me adding them to the rw as and when they turn up, scattered amongst subject B,C,D etc. can someone explain how this would work ? :lesson:

    DVD-RAM burner purchase on hold now at eleventh hour :rolleyes:

    Merlin
     
  7. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    UDF is a file format and is designed to be independent of the media, it doesn't matter whether you use +RW/DVD-RW or DVD-RAM. Pinnacle UDF is very poor in my opinion (this I assume is InstantWrite), InCD from Nero has come on leaps and bounds in the last year or so and in my opinion is much more reliable then any other alternatives. Nero are working hard with OSTA who look after the UDF specification and already support the latest versions of UDF that will be used on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs, not that it makes much difference to your needs currently, however it shows they are interested in InCD becoming the one everyone uses, in comparison InstantWrite still has bugs (4Gbyte file size limit for one) that have never been fixed despite being known about for several years, and the code has hardly been touched since it was inherited from VOB.

    Two second clips? You are going to have problems whatever you do as MPEG isn't designed for this sort of editing and in some cases depending on the recording mode of the DVD Recorder it may not even let you edit this short, or if it does, what you edit isn't necessary what you get as it can slip a few frames backwards or forwards. You will also come up against limits for the number of chapters and titles you can fit on a disc, unless you edit and join them up using the computer rather than any editing on the DVD Recorder itself.

    The question you should be asking isn't about what DVD Writer you need as it makes little odds if you use DVD-RAM/RW/+RW, but whether you can accurately and without a lot of trouble capture 2 second clips from DVD?

    Regards

    Philip
     
  8. Merlin

    Merlin
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    PhilipL,
    Yes InstantWrite, I actually started udf writing because I have file names longer than 64characters, and used VOB, then it became Pinnacle who swallowed them up, its glitchy at times, and as you say untouched. I did try Nero some time ago, drag/drop worked but it rejected the files saying longer than 64 characters, so not fully udf standard. If they have now allowed more than 64 chars then that's brilliant news, especially if they are working towards max stability and the udf standard. Hope this is so. The 64char limit is overcome with udf, thats the joy of udf for me, along with drag/drop like a floppy, so it was annoying to find that nero had a semi udf function when I tried it, unless I missed a char limit setting somewhere ?

    The 2 second clips, some will be longer, I shall then, from what you advise, assemble at frame accuracy in Adobe Premiere, store the resulting file on the Pc's HDD until it gets sizeable then store it on the DVD-RAM, thats if I ever overcome the burner issue.

    My premiere usage so far sees it working with avi files from mini dv. The VR files from dvd-ram, does it convert these to avi and when I write the final edit back to dvd-ram, does it convert to VR again ?
    If I am assembling the VR converted to avi footage (if thats what it does) files into the clip order I want, to save PC HDD space, can I write that avi as avi to the same disc amidst VR or best use another dvd-ram disc for just avi ?

    Also thinks....
    As DvD-RAM acts like a slow HDD, can I open the file into premiere and then have it do saves to the dvd-ram as I work, then the final save also to it, or does the quote below scupper such methods, i.e. it isn't that accurate for saves ?

    HDD on PC obviously better at speed, but for sheer convenience of just adding in another 2 sec clip to e.g the avi on the dvd-ram, rather than copy 2 gig off to pc, addd the short clip, then copy 2.1gig back to dvd-ram, could saving direct to dvd-ram work ?

    Burner support query...LG say it comes with Power DVD so guess thats something, though I have TMPGenc author if memory serves me right. So yet another prog to clash perhaps !

    Merlin
     
  9. pilotsnipes

    pilotsnipes
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    Haven't read the whole thread (sorry got bored) but i have the pany eh50 and the LG 4163B and they are a great combination. Transfering from recorder to computer is very easy, and using womble video editor makes removal of ads etc very easy.

    Finally backup of the video to DVD-/+R is done flawlessly with the LG4163.

    Nice solution for me anyway.

    $0.02.
     

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