Summary of this thread (to avoid having to read my detailed dribble below): For novices and enthusiasts to be able to build knowledge and experts to give advice and guidance on setups and how separates work and can best be combined to achieve a high level of musical fidelity on a 'reasonable' budget, starting from new and definitely considering what can be had 'used' but still modern to achieve that price/gain balance.
My Personal Detail: I'm a novice and I'd like some education from like minded and experienced AVF'ers. I've been doing my homework and will continue to do so, so this isn't a "please hand everything on a plate to me" situation but one that hopefully can engage both novices and experts without prejudice or pretentiousness.
So I've really got the bug recently about all this whole AV world since recently making a few important upgrades with my TV, receiver and the front 3 speakers (see sig). Since then, I've fallen down the rabbit hole and am on a quest to build and experience great musical sound quality in my front room.
Obviously (to the seasoned vets), the recent changes are all based on the A/V experience but it's the Hi-Fi rabbit hole that I have fallen down into. I was unaware, as a novice, that it was next to impossible to experience true high fidelity from a single AV receiver since there is far too much going on within the unit itself that it's just not possible to avoid interference in the signal, which critically degrades the audio signal. Thus, the speaker upgrades I made, made little sense, from a musical perspective, since the power to drive them and the signal to feed them is simply inadequate from an AV receiver for true musical fidelity.
So here's what I have learned recently:
- I can add a separate amp to my setup that will drive the front left and right (and sub with the right amp but that might be controversial for some) - this then creates a separate stereo setup, critical for the hi-fi experience
- A dedicated stereo amp is stripped out of all the gubbins that I have in my receiver and has minimalistic but essential components that are needed to achieve high fidelity
- In order for me to achieve the above and maintain my AV experience, I'd need to have bought the X3700H instead of the X2700H since my 'budget receiver' doesn't support Front Left & Right pre-out.
- Front L&R pre-out would go to the new amp as Power Amp Input (a specific feature not found on entry level amps either)
- New amp, for how I would like it to integrate into my AV setup, would need to have "Home Theatre By-Pass" (it has other names such as "Processor Input", "Theatre Input" etc) which means that the AV receiver and the amp would combine for my AV experience to power my 5.1.2 setup (again, far from entry level feature, in fact a fairly sparse feature, here is a link to a website that has corralled all the amplifiers with this exact feature: Amplifiers with HT-bypass - update 18. September 2020 )
- > The amp would power the front L&R on it's own with far greater efficiency and fidelity
- > The AV receiver would be freed up to power the remaining 3.1.2 and would have greater power to serve the remaining speakers.
- The amp here is assumed to be an integrated amp which means it has a preamp AND a power amp combined in one unit
- > Preamp - This is the amp that receives the source signal as a small voltage and amplifies it to a usable voltage
- > Power Amp - This takes the now usable audio signal as a voltage and amplifies its current - this is what feeds the speakers and is what creates the loudness.
- CD Transport - This is where a CD player simply reads/extracts the digital info from the disc and 'transports' it straight to the amp or DAC if an external one is added in between. It doesn't feed it through it's own DAC, it leaves it completely untouched with no processing and straight out of a digital output i.e optical or coax.
In the next year, I aim to have a separate amplifier(s), CD player (transport maybe?) and turntable.
What is critical, for me personally, is to achieve sonic excellence (clarity, detail and rhythm), not specific to a genre of music, therefore being able to be a great all-rounder, from a modern setup at a 'reasonable' price. That's an ambiguous statement I know. Let's just say we understand the entry level won't cut the mustard and the Rolls Royce is simply the best but out of reach. Where do we find a balance somewhere in between where we hit the bell curve before the price/gain-to-had becomes a law of diminishing returns, whereby you have to spend a silly amount more to achieve not much more or that a lower end system just wouldn't benefit from it?
@gibbsy and @dante01, credit goes to you both for much of the above learned, you have both been excellent with your information in several threads I have joined and seem to have similar approaches to your knowledge but articulate your views very differently. Care to share some wisdom for myself and others who maybe in the same boat or keen to learn? (I felt it best to start a new thread tailored to my own circumstance, than hijack the X2700H owners thread we've been conversing on recently about this all).
(Apologies to all if any of my terminology is wonky lol)
My Personal Detail: I'm a novice and I'd like some education from like minded and experienced AVF'ers. I've been doing my homework and will continue to do so, so this isn't a "please hand everything on a plate to me" situation but one that hopefully can engage both novices and experts without prejudice or pretentiousness.
So I've really got the bug recently about all this whole AV world since recently making a few important upgrades with my TV, receiver and the front 3 speakers (see sig). Since then, I've fallen down the rabbit hole and am on a quest to build and experience great musical sound quality in my front room.
Obviously (to the seasoned vets), the recent changes are all based on the A/V experience but it's the Hi-Fi rabbit hole that I have fallen down into. I was unaware, as a novice, that it was next to impossible to experience true high fidelity from a single AV receiver since there is far too much going on within the unit itself that it's just not possible to avoid interference in the signal, which critically degrades the audio signal. Thus, the speaker upgrades I made, made little sense, from a musical perspective, since the power to drive them and the signal to feed them is simply inadequate from an AV receiver for true musical fidelity.
So here's what I have learned recently:
- I can add a separate amp to my setup that will drive the front left and right (and sub with the right amp but that might be controversial for some) - this then creates a separate stereo setup, critical for the hi-fi experience
- A dedicated stereo amp is stripped out of all the gubbins that I have in my receiver and has minimalistic but essential components that are needed to achieve high fidelity
- In order for me to achieve the above and maintain my AV experience, I'd need to have bought the X3700H instead of the X2700H since my 'budget receiver' doesn't support Front Left & Right pre-out.
- Front L&R pre-out would go to the new amp as Power Amp Input (a specific feature not found on entry level amps either)
- New amp, for how I would like it to integrate into my AV setup, would need to have "Home Theatre By-Pass" (it has other names such as "Processor Input", "Theatre Input" etc) which means that the AV receiver and the amp would combine for my AV experience to power my 5.1.2 setup (again, far from entry level feature, in fact a fairly sparse feature, here is a link to a website that has corralled all the amplifiers with this exact feature: Amplifiers with HT-bypass - update 18. September 2020 )
- > The amp would power the front L&R on it's own with far greater efficiency and fidelity
- > The AV receiver would be freed up to power the remaining 3.1.2 and would have greater power to serve the remaining speakers.
- The amp here is assumed to be an integrated amp which means it has a preamp AND a power amp combined in one unit
- > Preamp - This is the amp that receives the source signal as a small voltage and amplifies it to a usable voltage
- > Power Amp - This takes the now usable audio signal as a voltage and amplifies its current - this is what feeds the speakers and is what creates the loudness.
- CD Transport - This is where a CD player simply reads/extracts the digital info from the disc and 'transports' it straight to the amp or DAC if an external one is added in between. It doesn't feed it through it's own DAC, it leaves it completely untouched with no processing and straight out of a digital output i.e optical or coax.
In the next year, I aim to have a separate amplifier(s), CD player (transport maybe?) and turntable.
What is critical, for me personally, is to achieve sonic excellence (clarity, detail and rhythm), not specific to a genre of music, therefore being able to be a great all-rounder, from a modern setup at a 'reasonable' price. That's an ambiguous statement I know. Let's just say we understand the entry level won't cut the mustard and the Rolls Royce is simply the best but out of reach. Where do we find a balance somewhere in between where we hit the bell curve before the price/gain-to-had becomes a law of diminishing returns, whereby you have to spend a silly amount more to achieve not much more or that a lower end system just wouldn't benefit from it?
@gibbsy and @dante01, credit goes to you both for much of the above learned, you have both been excellent with your information in several threads I have joined and seem to have similar approaches to your knowledge but articulate your views very differently. Care to share some wisdom for myself and others who maybe in the same boat or keen to learn? (I felt it best to start a new thread tailored to my own circumstance, than hijack the X2700H owners thread we've been conversing on recently about this all).
(Apologies to all if any of my terminology is wonky lol)