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Editing with dvd-r's

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by fusioncold, Oct 13, 2004.

  1. fusioncold

    fusioncold
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    Hi :hiya:

    I'm looking at getting a Panasonic e55 as I can't really stretch to the cost of an HDD recorder. I like the fact that you can get 3hrs of higher quality recording onto a dvd with the Panasonic-after all, the final quality is what is most important.

    My question is, will I be able to edit out ad breaks on **dvd-r** discs? If it's possible, will the -r disc be likely to be readable on most standard dvd players? I know that it can be done on RAMs, but as I don't have a RAM player on my pc, I can't convert edited RAMs into -r's my PC.

    If the above doesn' t work, then I could just edit the 'unedited' -r on my PC. Just a quick question on this:

    Does editing on the PC tend to produce a drop in quality, or is it in effect just a case of chopping up the movie and copying to a new dvd, rather than re-encoding?


    Hope the post makes sense. Thanks in advance for any help!
     
  2. kenfowler3966

    kenfowler3966
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    You can't edit on a -r, only on -ram. All you can do on -r is delete a whole program, but that does not recover any space for re-use
    Best bet is to save a little longer and get the hdd version, as it is much easier to edit on the hdd than to transfer to a computer, edit, and then re-burn, particularly as you are wasting media if you use -r to transfer and don't have a ram compatible drive in the pc.

    You will find a dvd only recorder very limited in its abilities, and with hardly any capacity for recording. eg I have already recorded, watched and deleted via time slip over 3 hours of progs tonight, whilst the machine has another 3 hours from earlier in the week still to watch and is recording again at present. There is no way I could do that in sp quality on a ram disc without keeping swapping discs.
     
  3. fusioncold

    fusioncold
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    Thanks for answering my main question. What i should have mentioned (!!) is that I have sky+, so time slip is completely pointless, as is extra hdd space on a dvd recorder.

    I do appreciate that an hdd recorder is useful for editing prior to writing to a dvd-r though, shame that it costs another £200+ for a hdd model. It looks like I'll be editing dvd-r's on my pc!

    Presumably, the quality of final dvd's will be the same on a pc as editing on an hdd recorder ?
     
  4. OARDVD

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    If you record directly on to a DVD disc and then you edit out the ads (only possible on rewritable RW & RAM discs) then you are not optimising the disc space unless the unedited video is less than 1 hour in duration. So, If maximising picture quality is important and you require significant editing, then as Ken said, buy a machine with a hard drive. You can edit on the HDD (or use playlists) and then dub to DVD-R losslessly which will allow you to fully utilise the space on the DVD (and thus optimise the quality). In addition, I would recommend a machine with a split utility on the HDD and also the ability to re-encode with Flexible Recording.

    There are several PC software utilities available which will allow trimming without re-encoding the video (eg. Womble’s MPEG video wizard). So provided you use one of these then the quality will be undiminished. But again, if you want to record more than 1 hour of video, and you require editing, and you want the highest quality then it’s best to capture it first to a hard drive and edit it there before you copy to DVD.
     
  5. Niburu

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    Hi there.

    Forgive me for perhaps missing the point but you can edit out anything between two chapter markers? This is how it works on DVD+R anyway.
    I often record things and then place a marker at the start of the ads and then another at the end, I then just make the area inbetween `hidden`.
    Once the disc is finalised, it will then remain `deleted` and play in other DVD players. I'm not sure if this works on DVD-?
    If you are not fussed about a hard drive, you can pick up many DVD recorders for under £200!

    Iain
     
  6. bobcar

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    I don't think the drop in quality from recording around 2 hours plus on the E55 is very much at all. This comment is based on recording from Sky with its relatively low bit-rates it would be different with a higher quality input source. Obviously for a longer film etc with lots of adverts then if they could be removed on a HDD first this would decrease the total time and therefore improve the quality but this is not normally a problem.

    I have the Sky+ and E55 combination and it works well, I live with the advert breaks. Having a HDD has significant advantages for some people, it depends whether its worth the extra £200 to you personally or not.
     
  7. fusioncold

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    oardvd. excuse me for being really stupid, but I'm confused about what I've heard elsewhere about the max full resolution time of 3hrs on Panasonic and 2:20 on Pioneer. (I think it was Rasczak)

    I know that there is a 1hr xp mode, 2hr sp etc etc on these drives, but the info about 3/2:20 is confusing me a bit :) I'd assumed that the Panasonic squeezed a bit more time out of a dvd so it was swaying me from the Pioneer 220 for that reason. If there is no quality difference between the e55 and 220, then I'd prefer to get the Pioneer as it has -RW (can edit on a pc with my current set-up)

    Cheers.
     
  8. OARDVD

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    Hi Iain. As Ken said, no –R/-RW deck implements chapter hiding on write-once –R discs recorded in Video mode*. Not sure why. I don’t know if it’s technically possible. DVD+R is one of the few areas where +RW decks have an editing advantage over –R/-RW. However if you do hide chapters on a disc then (once again) you’re not optimising the disc space. It’s yet another reason to get a model with an HDD :lesson:

    *Future Pioneer models are rumoured to have an option to implement the –VR format on –R discs. Thus the editing will be all singing & dancing (although it won't return disc space) but the discs recorded in this manner will not have a high degree of compatibility.
     
  9. OARDVD

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    It’s basically the maximum time you can record on a DVD disc (using FR) while maintaining full D1 resolution.

    Yes the Panny can record for longer at full res before it needs to drop to half res. The MPEG encoder in the Panny is slightly more advanced but the Pioneer’s still very good. But to be honest I don’t think that most people will notice much of a difference in practice (especially on a small screen). I’ve mentioned this before but it’s slightly hard to explain: The reason is that if the Panny is recording at full resolution at a bitrate suitable for a duration of 3 hours then this is really approaching bit ‘starvation’ in order to maintain that res. The Pioneer at that same duration has now dropped to a lower res. But it’s still using a similar bitrate to the Panny, and it now has a comfortable headroom of bits to encode at that lower resolution. It’s much further from the stress point. So, all things equal, a lower resolution picture encoded with plenty of bits available (for that particular res) may not appear significantly worse than one recorded at a higher res but pushing the boundaries a bit. The relationship between bitrate & resolution is complex and it's not as black and white as saying Full D1 is always noticeably better.

    To be honest both machines are excellent in this respect (as is the Tosh XS-32) and I don’t think you’d be disappointed either way.
     
  10. phelings

    phelings
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    Niburu,you may be able to hide the space between chapter markers on DVD+,but that space is not recovered,and is wasted.Another reason to get HDD.Optimum quality all the way along.
     
  11. OARDVD

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    According to a poster on another board: On the E85 when viewing a DVD-R using 'chapter view' then it allows you to hide sections of a title which are marked out with chapters. Thus, you can remove commercials for example. These sections remain hidden after the disc is finalised and when it's played on a conventional DVD player. Can anybody with an E85 confirm this?
     
  12. phelings

    phelings
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    I cannot confirm if it is possible,but its something DVD+R has always done.Besides,if you have HDD ,surely you would record to that,edit it properly,then transfer to DVD maximising bit rate
     
  13. OARDVD

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    The poster claims that after editing on the HDD and then dubbing to -R they found that they had accidentally missed out one of the deletions. They then chanced upon an option to partial 'delete' (ie hide part of a title) when viewing the unfinalised -R using 'chapter mode'.
     
  14. apreading

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    Well I havent seen that option - all you can do as far as I remember is delete the title, rename or choose thumbnail pic. Will check later if there is a chapter view which does more but I would be surprised if I had overlooked it - besides you cannot set the chapters once it is on the -R so it would be almost pointless...
     

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