Editing Software for Beginners

12harry

Distinguished Member
IMHO Sony doesn't make it easy to find the Music they supply - indeed I believe it was "by chance" I found it . . . as I'm on v12 now, this may not remain the same - there are "Extras" which use the Authorisation codes Card (in the Box) - so maybe one day I will fetch these too.
It's my belief that Sony is getting less-generous with Music tracks - but fortunately I also have v10 PS - which came with far more Music.

+++There are plenty of Royalty-free music sites out there . . . . all they ask is a By-Line.
Of course, they also produce "Custom" tracks and if your next Epic is worth seeing in a grander setting, you will need suitable music to support the visuals - but maybe some Months away; when you've got to grips with the essence(s) of Editing.

For external Music sites I create a folder "Source Name" and then when you download a track it has somewhere to go. ( This make Crediting easier, later).
Create a temporary Folder for "Projects" ( My Holiday 2014 ) and put all the video clips there. Create sub-folders "Stills" and "Music" ( maybe one for Sound-effects too), then you can trawl your Music collection it's easy enough to make a copy for the Project - you could import them all, but this can confuse the Editing process ( IMHO).

Since you have the PS you can use SoundForge to create SFX from the camcorder....
From the timeline choose a clip that's suitable then Open Copy in Audio Editor - and SF will open with just the audio - cut out the excess bits and adjust Volume ( maybe add Reverb, -but I suggest you save the plain File first. ). I go round via the Project folder with the clip (already saved as "Audio-Processed"), and then you can exchange/add to the audio section on the Timeline.
+All this will work easily when you've done it a few times.


Good luck.
 

redboy1

Well-known Member
IMHO Sony doesn't make it easy to find the Music they supply - indeed I believe it was "by chance" I found it . . . as I'm on v12 now, this may not remain the same - there are "Extras" which use the Authorisation codes Card (in the Box) - so maybe one day I will fetch these too.
It's my belief that Sony is getting less-generous with Music tracks - but fortunately I also have v10 PS - which came with far more Music


Where abouts is it kept on the software then mate?
 

vkmast

Active Member
IMHO Sony doesn't make it easy to find the Music they supply - indeed I believe it was "by chance" I found it . . . as I'm on v12 now, this may not remain the same - there are "Extras" which use the Authorisation codes Card (in the Box) - so maybe one day I will fetch these too.
It's my belief that Sony is getting less-generous with Music tracks - but fortunately I also have v10 PS - which came with far more Music.
+++There are plenty of Royalty-free music sites out there . . . . all they ask is a By-Line.
12harry, your belief may not be quite correct. My VMSPPS 10 came with 20 soundtracks with somewhat insignificant variations that made it to the advertised 360. OTOH, my MSPS 12 came with 50 production music tracks (not the same as in 10) with less variations. The 50 music tracks in MSS 13 are similar to the ones in 12.
The 1,001 sound FX of v10 were probably not in the original extras of v12 (at least not in my download, not sure about the full package, maybe redboy found out?), but they were offered in the special OEM to Full upgrade. Besides the 50 music tracks and the sound FX, MSS 13 comes with Acid Music Studio 10 and other bonus features. See
Review of Sony Movie Studio Suite 13

I agree that making use of royalty-free music sites is a very good option.
 

antg1985

Active Member
Will any of these work on the surface pro 3?
 

12harry

Distinguished Member
vkmast - post 28 - did sms ps v10 come with 1001 sound fx? I found a similar-title on Sony'd website and whilst the quality is good, they fail to sell me the sizzle, despite a modestly low price....but if v10 came with them - er, I've obviously missed them, so presumably they are lurking on one of my Install Discs.
 

vkmast

Active Member
vkmast - post 28 - did sms ps v10 come with 1001 sound fx? - - - ...but if v10 came with them - er, I've obviously missed them, so presumably they are lurking on one of my Install Discs.
12harry,
My copy of VMSPPS 10, which was the last one I bought as a package with the discs, incidentally from UK Amazon, did indeed come with the said FX. You'll find them in the Content folder in the Installation DVD. Insert it and open as described in detail in the SCS link included in my post #25 in this very thread.

antg85,
re Movie Studio Platinum 13 and Surface Pro 3, I've seen some sceptical opinions on the SCS forums. One positive experience though is reported here
Surface Pro 3 - Quick Review | MangoLassi
There's the free trial available here to make up your own mind.
 
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12harry

Distinguished Member
I must try that soon, as (that Link) reads like I put it into a named folder and not within SMSv10PS - as I have a fear of anything that might upset the main Program. Perhaps v12PS has some extras too? I know there is a NewBlue text feature, but that appears to plug-into the main Program and as I'm none too fussed about any more Text, since v12 appears to have moved it up a gear....and NuBlue is not (yet) in the list when I looked.
It seems odd that Sony makes it so difficult to find these "extras" - you'd think they'd want their customers to get the full package.
 

bouncer

Well-known Member
Wonder if any of you chaps can help, Normally use Sony PS 13 but haven't done any editing for a few months.

Trying to unlink the audio track from the video track with no luck!
 

Terfyn

Well-known Member
I use Corel VideoStudio but the same operation might work. Right click on the video track and tick "split audio".
As this option has been around for ages, it might be common to a number of editors.

:laugh:Of course you could always invest in a decent editor!:laugh::clap: (Hey Harry?:cool:)

P.S. For Sony believers - Only Joking:thumbsup:
 

vkmast

Active Member
bouncer,
right-click the event (=clip on the timeline) and Group > Remove from
or
press Ignore Event Grouping. In MSP 13 Advanced Mode that button is under Config. You can also select Ignore Event Grouping in Options.
See How do I remove Audio from Video ?
In Vegas/ Movie Studios "splitting an event allows you to adjust a small part of an event or break a single event into multiple sections that you can edit independently."
 

Terfyn

Well-known Member
I'm glad I picked an easy one.

The ability to split audio from video is fundamental and, in my case, the first thing I do. The audio can then be processed independently of the video editor. I use Audacity to process audio when needed.
 

bouncer

Well-known Member
Must be mixing up my software, Was as simple as right clicking the audio in the last software I used!
 

Terfyn

Well-known Member
Must be mixing up my software, Was as simple as right clicking the audio in the last software I used!
Had to be straight forward. Glad it's sorted.
One of the reasons I like VideoStudio is that the process to carry out the most used options is obvious. I moved from Pinnacle Studio and, once I got used to it, found VideoStudio easy to use. I can edit and render most of my raw footage in a morning.
 
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12harry

Distinguished Member
bouncer, -that's a long Render Factor{ Post39}. For my Dual-core mid-spec Win7(32) using SMSv10 PS I would get Render Factors about 4-5x for 1080i - but if I include blur and Keyframing the Factor increases - so then I render overnight.
Of course a Loop / short-render takes much less time.... and is useful if there are critical points that need checking. (eg sync a visual and multiple audio SFX).

Audio
Incidentally, in the PS versions of Sony Movie Studio, you can click on the audio and "Copy to Audio Editor" - this makes a duplicate audio track which opens in Sound Forge, to be Edited. Then Saved and Imported back into the Project. This preserves the original Audio attached to the clip on the Timeline, so you can check the improvement.
However, quite a few audio-effects can be done within SMS - if the Video is good then there may be some advantage in keeping the Grouping ( for example Lip-Sync.).
SMS was originally developed as an Audio program, hence it retains many tricks from those early versions, prior to being bought by Sony [ DYOR ].
Hope that helps.
 

vkmast

Active Member
Audio
Incidentally, in the PS versions of Sony Movie Studio, you can click on the audio and "Copy to Audio Editor" - this makes a duplicate audio track which opens in Sound Forge, to be Edited. Then Saved and Imported back into the Project. This preserves the original Audio attached to the clip on the Timeline, so you can check the improvement.
However, quite a few audio-effects can be done within SMS - if the Video is good then there may be some advantage in keeping the Grouping ( for example Lip-Sync.).
SMS was originally developed as an Audio program, hence it retains many tricks from those early versions, prior to being bought by Sony [ DYOR ].
Hope that helps.
12harry, an excellent no-nonsense clarification from you on audio in (Vegas) MSP. And in Audio Preferences you choose your preferred audio editor, so it can open in e.g. the free Audacity instead of SF.
 
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bouncer

Well-known Member
bouncer, -that's a long Render Factor{ Post39}. For my Dual-core mid-spec Win7(32) using SMSv10 PS I would get Render Factors about 4-5x for 1080i - but if I include blur and Keyframing the Factor increases - so then I render overnight.
Of course a Loop / short-render takes much less time.... and is useful if there are critical points that need checking. (eg sync a visual and multiple audio SFX).

Audio
Incidentally, in the PS versions of Sony Movie Studio, you can click on the audio and "Copy to Audio Editor" - this makes a duplicate audio track which opens in Sound Forge, to be Edited. Then Saved and Imported back into the Project. This preserves the original Audio attached to the clip on the Timeline, so you can check the improvement.
However, quite a few audio-effects can be done within SMS - if the Video is good then there may be some advantage in keeping the Grouping ( for example Lip-Sync.).
SMS was originally developed as an Audio program, hence it retains many tricks from those early versions, prior to being bought by Sony [ DYOR ].
Hope that helps.

I see! (I understood none of that!)
 

12harry

Distinguished Member
ER, did you not understand Render-Factor?
If your movie ends at 2m40s then you might hope it would be rendered in the same time, but it is usually much longer depending on the complexity of each frame. A Render Factor of five would mean the above movie will Render in about 13mins. . . . . . Hope that removes any confusion.....
 

Terfyn

Well-known Member
Not really Harry. Why not call the "time to render" something more simple such as the "time for the video to be changed into a file that can be copied to a DVD" - longer but more obvious. "Render" means different things to different people.

It is worth remembering that this Forum is open to all comers from the "expert" techies to the first timers who just want film of their new baby - and so on. It follows that the use of buzz phrases and technical terms will be lost on many Forum readers. A straightforward and tech free explanation usually works best.

My interest is in the production of good video, the tools I use to achieve this are less important than the final result. So the talk of frame rate and compression are not relevant if the final screening is as near perfection as the modern kit can supply. I accept that it of interest to the minority but please, if you have to be techie, then explain in simple terms how the answer is relevant to the question.
 
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grahamlthompson

Distinguished Member
ER, did you not understand Render-Factor?
If your movie ends at 2m40s then you might hope it would be rendered in the same time, but it is usually much longer depending on the complexity of each frame. A Render Factor of five would mean the above movie will Render in about 13mins. . . . . . Hope that removes any confusion.....

If you want to post information like this you ought at least to get the information right. One frame is no more complex than any other. It's just a set of colour data containing red green and blue data for 1920 x 1080 pixels. The data requirement is identical whatever the frame contains. Your so called render factor is something I believe you have invented. It's the difference in content between individual frames that creates the difference in rendering times. This is down to the way the content is compressed. This is all done in your camcorder so it's of no consequence whatsoever. If you were to take a set of clips and put them on timeline simply to join them together, to create the output absolutely no rendering is required. Simply joining the clips is a trivial operation. If you were to simply cut a few frames of some clips then a very tiny amount of re-rendering parts of the data is required. A cut editor with smart rendering like VideoRedoTVsuite H264 is capable of handling this in a few minutes for HD material on the lowest powered kit. (Get a trial and try joining a load of clips and then cut editing the output file).

You can join a very large number of clips into a single movie file using Freesoftware like TSMUXERgui in a very short period on most any PC. You can also change the video container which is another trivial operation.


Before you mention the audio synch issue there is a simple fix. Output the joined file and re-open it in tsmuxer, this time you have an audio synch adjustment (+100 works for me).


What does require significant processing (and it's nothing to do with what the clips contain) is where you create special effects in a video editor like overlapping clips and applying complex transitions and overlay effects like mattes and titles. Even then the best editors only re-render the bits they have to.
 

vkmast

Active Member
Not really Harry. Why not call the "time to render" something more simple such as the "time for the video to be changed into a file that can be copied to a DVD" - longer but more obvious. "Render" means different things to different people. - - -
Generally, I agree with Terfyn's demand for straight explanations, though I cannot see how the use of "technical terms" could be totally avoided here.
I myself confess to having been giving mild flak for 12harry on some topics on a forum or three at times, even in this thread earlier, some might say. In this case though I beg to take exception to the criticism of some of his wording. 12harry specifically replied to bouncer's posts, which clearly stated he has been using SCS's MSP 13 (post #33) and was familiar with the meaning of the word "render" in the SCS editor (post #39). So I think he was right in assuming that his word choice would be appropriate.
What does "Render" mean?
---What does require significant processing (and it's nothing to do with what the clips contain) is where you create special effects in a video editor like overlapping clips and applying complex transitions and overlay effects like mattes and titles. Even then the best editors only re-render the bits they have to.
As for GLT's excellent post, note though that 12harry was talking about SCS software (VMSP 10), which may or may not be "the best editors". The SCS KB and the Help files of VegasPros/MSPs list their requirements for "smart rendering".
Smart Rendering in Vegas Pro
 

Terfyn

Well-known Member
Render:- To boil fat into lard and to plaster a wall.
 

12harry

Distinguished Member
In Post 39 bouncer was saying his software took rather a long time to finish the Render process
- what's wrong with me using the term "Render factor" since this is a measure of the time you can go away, have a meal etc. from knowing the length of the Edited movie?

You get the "Render-Factor" from experience with your other Rendered movies - simples!

My own PC typically has a x5 Render Factor ( BTW you aren't obliged to use the Term - indeed I suggest you don't ), but if I include "Bump / Blur" over the whole movie ( ignoring Titles ), then the factor will be nearer x12. Clearly, these FX are ones to avoid if you are in a hurry.

Frames of a finished movie may be identical ( having the same pixel-count as I'd expect) - I'm not suggesting otherwise, but if your Edit contains many transitions, effects and so on, then the Render Factor increases. It is a function of the complexity the processor has to go through to complete each frame.
What's wrong with expecting it to take longer than simple joins?
In SMS I can see the "Estimated time left" change as it comes across rather complex parts, so if it starts with a simple movie it will underestimate the time - if however the start is complex and then it's a simple Edit, the estimate is too long initially, but soon corrects itself - but it cannot "know" until it reaches the end; when it tells you "Time taken" or similar words. That's where the Render Factor can be obtained.....nothing complicated really.

Hope that helps those that "don't know" -and should be ignored by those that do - or don't care, etc.

Rendering is a term consistently used in conversation meaning that computer-time between the Edit and a completed Movie (or clip). Trying to call it something else is unnecessary, although I note that SMS has a Button "Make Movie" - which a Beginner might think means they could dispense with learning how to use the Editor altogether. I would hope that whether you are a Beginner or an Experienced Poster, you are quite capable of ignoring anything outside your interest-zone, or which is directed at a specific poster.
I can't say I like the term Rendering as it hints at nothing. However, I've not read any better suggestions although I've thought "Compositing" might help - yet it sounds rather nasty.

One is only trying to be helpful and bouncer probably knows he needs new hardware to speed up his movie-making. At least now he has some measure of what time other Renders may take.
 

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