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Editing on Toshiba XS32

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by AVFan7667, Dec 19, 2004.

  1. AVFan7667

    AVFan7667
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    I know I have read this somewhere on here before but I can't find it now (and yes, I have searched).

    When you place a chapter divide to set up the edits, it seems to jump a frame back so when you burn to disc you end up with a frame you didn't want.

    Is this always the case? And does it always jump a frame backwards (is it always a single frame)?

    If it is just alwayss 1 frame back I will take this into account when setting up chapters for editing.

    Thanks
     
  2. tobyjuggler

    tobyjuggler
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    I noticed this too! Not sure if it's just one frame though.
     
  3. AVFan7667

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    Has anyone else with the XS32 noticed this?

    I haven't had time to do any tests yet.

    Trying to find out if it's always a single frame and whether it goes forward or back by that amount.
     
  4. tobyjuggler

    tobyjuggler
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    It appears to skip back one frame, so you really need to set the chapter start two frames into the sequence.
     
  5. nunew33

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    When editing chapter points set the mode to GOP (top option in quick menu when chapter editing). tHIS TEN ADVANCES BY gROUP OF pICTURES(gop) [Sorry caps Lock] - ie exactly where the chapter pointsmove to (i-frames in mpeg speak!).

    When you put chapter points in you will see exactly where they will be when you burn it.
     
  6. AVFan7667

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    nunew33 - I tried GOP like you suggested and it still inserted an eroneous frame into my editing.

    I think I will stick with tobyjuggler's suggestion and put my chapter marks 2 frames into my recording when doing edits.

    Any other suggestions welcome.

    Thanks everyone
     
  7. Mechman

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    nunew33 is spot on with this, It takes a bit of getting use to but works well with practice. I use it to get rid of all traces of adverts before burning films to DVd
     
  8. nunew33

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    I may have this completely wrong but my understanding is.

    When chaptering in DVD-VR (ie when on RAM or HDD) this mode allows a fudge which appears to give you frame accurate chapter points.

    When you change to DVD-video (ie burn to DVD-RW/R) this mode doesnt allow for the fudge and therefore changes the chapter point to the nearest i-frame (starting frame for a GOP). This looks like a jump of up to half a second from where you set the chapter point on the HDD.

    The Toshiba allows for editing in GOPS so when you pick the chapter point you know its an i frame that you placed the chapter point. The interface is confusing, as when you advance by GOPS for a selected chapter it only shows you the resultant frame for about a second before resuming to wherever you were up to in chapter editing.

    Using GOPS does allow you to see exactly where your chapter point will end up when you burn it

    Keith i dont understand the reference to inserting an erronious frame
     
  9. AVFan7667

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    nunew33 - When I placed my chapter marks in GOP-mode it all looked great on the HDD. Then I burned to DVD-R and when I watched back instead of making the cuts on the chapter marks I made, a couple of them had jumped back what seemed to be a single frame, so instead of removng the ads I ended up with the last frame of the ads before the programme started again.

    I have only tried GOP this once, so I will try some more later in the week if I get chance.
     
  10. AVFan7667

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    Long - sorry!

    OK. Tried GOP again last night.

    Recorded Max and Paddy's Road to Nowhere (6 episodes on back-to-back), so lots of adverts to remove.

    For simplicity I simply wanted each episode as a seperate chapter.

    Went into Chapter Editing and the first thing I did was put it in GOP mode.

    Set up my chapters where I wanted them (working on the assumption that the frames I was dividing on were the exact frames I would get in my finished DVD).

    Some anomolies to note here which may be important:

    For example, I went to the end of the ads and went forward frame by frame until I was on the 1st frame after the ads (frame 21 of the particular time for example). If I then went forward a few more frames and then back again, when I got back to frame 21 (the same frame 21) it was showing the last frame of the ads instead. How can frame 21 be both these things! This is the main thing that was confusing me.

    This didn't happen all the time, maybe 1 out of 5 marks I did. When it did, just in case, I moved the chapter mark forward (or back depending on what I wanted) by an extra frame for the 'confused' frame was not used.

    Any way - finished my chapters, and on the thumbnails everything looked spot on. Jumped back and forth through the chapter marks and everything was great.

    Next I created a playlist of the chapters and I wanted.

    Then I wanted each episode as a single chapter (after removing the ads there are two chapters per episode).

    Started Chapter Editing on the Playlist. First thing I did after entering Chapter Editing was to put it back into GOP mode again.

    Merged the 1st and 2nd chapter of each episode into a single chapter and gave the chapters names.

    I started playing the Playlist off the HDD and jumped to each chapter point. Free-framed it and went bak and forward over the chapter frame-by-frame to see if everything looked OK. It didn't!

    On one (only one) of the breaks (the one between episode 2 and 3 not that it's relevant) if you jumped to the start of episode 3's chapter all was fine. If you then went back by a single frame there was a frame of the ads (just one).

    Maybe it's just on the HDD I thought - time to burn to a DVD-Video. Using a RW disc just in case it's got the rogue frames in.

    Set up my menu (a chapter menu) and set it burning (with full test first).

    Played the finalized disc and there are still rogue frames. Not just the 1 I saw on the HDD now, but others too (only a small amount - they are not every chapter break - but that's not the point - one of them is 7 frames long and some of 2 or 3 frames!!).

    Can anyone please offer any advice on this? It is really starting to annoy me now.

    I did all the Chapter Editing in GOP mode which was suggested here, so how has this happened.

    Why was there the rogue frame between episodes 2 and 3 on the hard disk after making the Playist which was not evident by looking at the chapter breaks in Chapter Edit mode?

    Why has it still burn to disc with rogue frames in (not just the 1 I saw) even though I am using GOP?
     
  11. tobyjuggler

    tobyjuggler
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    Well, I recorded all those Max & Paddy episodes too, but have yet to 'clean' it all up. I'll be doing that later. Will try in both GOP mode and they way I did my last lot (Little Britain - Series 2), then will let you know later today.

    PS I love it when do these nights of showing all episodes from one series in a row, it makes the recording and editing so much easier!
     
  12. tobyjuggler

    tobyjuggler
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    Above was taken from this thread.

    Does this mean you have sorted your chapter editing problems now? If so, how? I'm just having a go at several methods myself now, but it's taking a while as I have to carry out Conversion Rate Dubbing too.
     
  13. nunew33

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    Keith if you are advancing frame by frame then you are not using GOPS.

    They advance in GOPS of 11 frames. To adjust the starting frame of a chapter, you need to be higlighting the chapter (not the counter). Then you use advance/rewind option. You will then see the counter jump by 11 frames at a time and see a preview of the selected frame for a second or two on the preview screen.
     
  14. AVFan7667

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    Thanks - it was my mistake. I was not using the frame adjust properly. I thought you just had to turn GOP on and then put your chapter marks.

    It's a bit of a faff having to adjust each mark though (or am I doing something wrong here too?).

    Thank all any way - I have re-burned Max and Paddy perfectly now.

    A jump of 11 frames for the GOP seems large. almost 1/2 second.

    Now my only annoyance is programmes which start talking before the Part 2 screen is gone etc.
     
  15. nunew33

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    It is a faff especially as you have to go down to the chapter thumb to adjust and you get a half second preview to guess if its right and if you then want to check which frame you have to go up and then use the chapter search buttons to get the preview and frame count!!!! If im going for frame accuracy I go for the PC. TMPGencs new mpeg editor recreates I frames when you select a frame mid GOP.

    I think that half second thing is common to all DVD recorders in DVD-Video format.

    One thing more annoying than dialogue starting on Part screens is long fade in/outs for ad breaks on films!!!!
     
  16. El_JimBob

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    Ah, but i've found a canny trick recently to get round this - pop down to yr local HMV, Virgin or SilverScreen, and pretty much any movie showing on Sky recently (and a few off terrestrial for that matter) can usually be found for a luvverly bargain price.
    It's almost like they know something we don't :rolleyes:
     
  17. nunew33

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    I usually do, its the ones they dont sell that I go to the effort of archiving!
     
  18. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    I suspect many of the forum readers here will buy a 'proper' DVD release as opposed to archive. I can't speak for others but archiving a recording generally 'costs' me more than buying the original! The time taken alone is enough to warrant buying any 'proper' release alone - designing menus, designing covers, specifiying chapter points, editting etc - all takes significant effort. And it isn't exactly cheap to archive - three branded DVD-Rs (and two more after 18 months), one DVD-RAM and a further branded DVD+R plus laser printer paper/ink - all in all your looking at a comparable cost to a commercial release.

    The fact is though many of us have to archive because there is alot of decent stuff that does not get commercial release.
     

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