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ECLIPSE: Looks like someone found the patent

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Gordon @ Convergent AV, May 14, 2005.

  1. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  2. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Yes indeed.

    I saw that earlier but before Arts comment on Eclipse, so didn't put two and two together and associate it with them.

    It seemed to be the final piece of the puzzle for digital to achive the CR and black levels of CRT but never made it into production. It was seen by some at Cedia 2 or 3 years ago wasn't it?

    The HS50 seems to have something that works reasonably well, and if a manual iris can work well on DLP, I wonder why the Sony dynamic iris can't be used instead? I wonder if the patent for that particular iris is held by Sony and so will preclude being used by anyone else.

    DLP seems to be getting better and better light absorbance when the mirrors are not reflecting through the lens, so hopefully they'll soon achieve CRs which should be above 8000:1 and black levels that CRT owners may be happy with without having to use an iris. An iris would make this achievable sooner though.

    Gary.
     
  3. Paul D

    Paul D
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    A british "type" inventors problem happened here.
    Great idea and vision, but not enough done to get backers or enough cash to develope it.

    I'm sure one of the big companies will pick it up.(if they haven't already done so!)
    Go! dynamic SXRD!!! :eek:

    If not, there seems to be a "push" on with the dynamic iris systems anyway.
    Biggest problem seems to be the speed, at which they operate.

    I predict all will be revealed at the next big US show.
     
  4. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Tom and the Immersive guys showed a technology demo to some folk at CES two years ago...ie Jan2004. As the Immersive distributor I got in and I took a dealer with me (Elliot). It was pretty amazing.

    They had a JVC DILA pj with a calibrated contrast of around 700:1 or something like that. They played the scene from the Tom Hnaks movie where he is marooned on an island., the scene where the plane crashes and sinks in the sea. When the plane is sinking there were flashes of lightning and the area around hs dinghy is lit up then it goes dark and eventually the plane sinks and it's pitch dark with just occassional flash of light....thhen sun starts to rise over the beach after...

    On first play the room was lit up with light from the PJ when the scene was supposed to be dark. You could see everyone in the room clearly as the excess lght from the dila bounced of screen and on to white ceiling etc. As it was a dark picture level scene it just showed how tat these things are with dark images.

    Then we saw the Eclipse turned on....WOWOWOWOWOW. The scene now had a huge dynamic range. It was dark for a start...crt dark...and when the plane sank and the lights went out for Tom they did for us...NO light came out of the PJ, you couldn't see anyone in the room, it was darker than a crt pj black level, then the lightning flashed and and the sun rose and it just looked so much more real than before. It was laugh out loud funny how different it was.

    We also saw a clip from a couple of other movies one of which showed up where they were having issues with the technology. The next day we went back to chat about it and they'd spent all night rewriting gamma tables etc and had improved the trouble scene from the day before. This was the first DILA they had modded. Tom thought it probably now had around 10,000:1 on off contrast.

    They had modded a Virtuoso HD2 DLP as the initial test bed and had measured it at over 17,000:1 on off. I know that after Elliot and I left there were a host of manufacturers due to see them so we can only hope that someone has bought in and has developed this over the last year and half to create the fixed pixel device we all would love to own.

    Long live Eclipse

    Gordon
     
  5. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    I didn't realise you'd actualy seen it in action Gordon, and it sounds far better than I expected. I wonder why it hasn't been implemented yet?

    Do you think that for it to work correctly at the moment, a gamma table has to be written for almost every movie, in which case getting it to work universaly may be what's holding it up - the global gamma table. The Sony HS50 as good as it is has some problems with some scenes, so I don't see why Eclipse couldn't be implemented on the poviso that gamma table upgrades would be needed. I think many would be willing to have a 'flawed' product that works to a point rather than wait liek we're doing at the moment.

    I certainly hope it does come to DLP, as then it would have finaly surpassed CRT in all aspects.

    Indeed!!

    Gary.
     
  6. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I am not Tom Strade so cannot comment on why in any definative manner as to what has happened to it or why. He has mentioned on his own forum and on AVS that the cost to take it to the final development stage and to be able to impliment it in a product was beyond the financial capabilities of the company. He has hinted that a big player may have licensed the technology from them though...I think if they've got it working then it's all over for the CRT boys....unless of course it's £100,000...hahahahh

    Gordon
     
  7. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Some people may still buy it even at that price!

    Though I wouldn't be one of them. :)

    Gary.
     
  8. Mr.D

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    I haven't read all the patent information but I'm assuming...

    It takes a break off from the luma , and effectively makes a highly clipped and crushed control image for the lower intensities ( effectively a luma key in image manipulation parlance) with maybe an artificial blurred fall off. This in turn is displayed on an additional LCD panel in the image path (wouldn't necessarily have to be the same resolution) and holds back the lower intensities whle minimising impact on the upper ones ( although LCDs are not exactly transparent.

    You could then mix in and out the level of opacity in this dark reinforcement channel depending on mean image brightness characteristics , ie predominatly dark image...full opacity , predominately bright image : minimum opacity.

    If you did the bulk of the control circuits in analogue you swouldn't have a problem with image lag.

    So what are the chances of this being a custom 3rd party modification?

    Can't see any other way of doing it really other than the lamp modulation / adaptive aperture technique.
     
  9. Paul D

    Paul D
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    Keith,
    I don't think this will be offered as a custom modification.
    In the early days, this was thought to be a possibility.
    I remember the talk it might be offered as a retrofit mod.

    Gordon, did it come in two boxes? (aperture and video processor?)

    It seems this will more than likely be a licensed device offered by the big boys, only in new PJs etc.

    For those who have seen the very latest DLPs, will know it is only the very last IREs that give the digital game away.
    So i would imagine it would be stunning to see a digital finally do "fade to black".

    I'm sure we will hear something very soon.
    But the biggest problem will probably be price.
    It will take a while to filter down to mainstream pricing.

    We are all still waiting for the 8K SXRD!
     

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