E8 / C8 freesat recording

Discussion in 'LG TVs Forum' started by SuperSam, Aug 22, 2018.

  1. SuperSam

    SuperSam
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    I'm gearing up to take the plunge on one of these but can't find much info on the freesat recording.

    I presume both TVs will let you record off the freesat tuner, do either of them give you any greater flexibility? I.e record two programs whilst watching a third? Is the process as intuitive as Sky Q?

    The Specs on the LG website say both have two RF ins but doesn't mention if this is two aerial & two sat or 1 of each.

    I'm a long way from a shop that would stock both so I can't just pop into my nearest Currys/RS to check so any 1st hand user experience would be great.

    Thanks
     
  2. sagaris99

    sagaris99
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    Pictures of the rear of the C8 and E8. Unlike with the E7, neither have a dual freesat tuner unfortunately. What this means is that regardless of the type of input (aerial or satellite), the TVs are not set up for multiplex (a massive investment from Sky) and so cannot decode the LMB source for Sky Q. Put simply, you can’t (as far as I know) take the sat cables out the Sky box and put them into the tv. A regular sat dish can be decoded by any source, but a Sky Q dish can only be used with a Sky Q box.


    On the TV side, if you did have a regular sat dish, the TV cannot interpret a dual signal, and so if you were recording a program through the tv onto a usb stick, the tv must be on and watching that channel.

    Hopefully that makes sense? Sorry if it’s rained on your parade
     

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  3. tigertimtim

    tigertimtim
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    My E7 does on freesat....i just need a twin cable run from my lnb on my sat dish.
     
  4. sagaris99

    sagaris99
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    Yes... with a twin cable. Neither the E8 or C8 has a twin tuner.
     
  5. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    A bit lost with your post, what does set up for multiplex mean ? What does LMB mean. The box on the end of a satellite arm is a LNB (short for low noise block down-converter). It's sole purpose is to downshift the microwave frequencies from a satellite to a lower frequency (IF-Intermediate Frequency) that a coax cable can deliver to the Box/TV on the other end of the coax cable.

    All digital kit is set up for multiplex because that's how digital TV works.

    Unlike analogue a single carrier analogue (Mux on terrestrial, transponder on Freesat) has multiple channels mixed (multiplexed onto the same analogue carrier using digital modulation rather than analogue - formerly PAL in the UK).

    A single tuner is capable de-multiplexing two channels at the same time from the same Mux/Transponder. Sadly Sky never implemented this. All Humax boxes Freesat and Freeview can do this. Not many TV's can also do this.

    Example a Humax 4000T/5000T has three tuners. It is capable of recording 4 channels at once and viewing a 5th. (provided no more than 3 mux is involved).

    Simple example you can record any 4 from BBC 1 HD, BBC 2 HD, ITV-HD, Channel-4 HD and Channel - 5 HD, and watch and live pause the one you aren't recording.

    Most all satellite kit uses a universal lnb that splits the total frequency range into two halves high and low. the tuner shifts the high band channels into the same IF by signalling the lnb so requires a band switching option. In addition adjacent channels switch the signal polarisation between horizontal and vertical allowing more transponders to fit into the same bandwidth.

    Therefore a universal lnb requires the tuner to tell the lnb two ikey pieces of information.

    1 The frequency band (High/Low) of the transponder carrying the channel required
    2 The Polarisation of the transponder carrying the channel required.

    Sky-Q uses exactly the same sources, it uses modern technology to be able to feed multiple tuners without either of the above tuner control of the lnb, this means you can split the signzal to multiple tuners as you can with terrestrial signals (which have no control signals, the aerial is completely passive device).

    How it does this is pretty simple,

    It lowers the IF frequency to a level that coax cable can handle the both High and Low band on a single cable.

    It delivers horizontal transponders on a single coax and vertical on another. Thus just two cables can feed multiple tuners in the same way that Terrestrial can do with a single cable.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
  6. sagaris99

    sagaris99
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    To be fair I may have confused myself with where I went, and auto correct did me dirty with *LNB*o_O

    What I was getting at is the TV’s, having tried it myself on a C8 and a G8, are unable to draw two feeds from one sat cable, unlike a Humax or Sky box.
    Having been trained by the Sky Q installers, I have been led to believe that one cannot simply remove the cables from a Q box and put them into anything else, because of the Sat and LNB.
     
  7. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    A Sky-HD box cannot extract two digital channels from the same transponder. Hence why when recording two there is no 3rd viewing option. It's nothing to do with the satellite all kit uses the same source,

    If the lnb on the box is a 6 output Hybrid lnb it will work with both Sky-Q and legacy kit like Sky-HD, Freesat and generic FTA receivers.

    eg

    6 Way Hybrid LNB for Sky Q and Freesat | eBay

    They are clever enough to recognise what is connected at the other end.

    Similar solutions exist for communal installations.

    TRIAX TMDS54C 4 Way dSCR Multiswitch SkyQ multi switch
     
  8. sagaris99

    sagaris99
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    Ok, but we agree that the tv cannot ‘split’ the signal.

    what is difference between a Sky Q and quad universal LNB
    Suggests that the Sky Q fitted LNB will only work with a Sky Q box

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5752192
    Exactly the scenario.

    Sky generally will fit a 2 output LNB unless you specify for a Hybrid 6 as you found. If using a 2 output LNB, the sat cables are useless.
    When they fit the 6 way hybrid, 2 are reserved for Sky Q, leaving the other four solely for SkyHD and other freesat services.
     
  9. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    Other than a Sky-Q lnb, afaik no TV can split the signal, that isn't true for Humax satellite boxes, they can use a single cable to feed both tuners. Technically the second tuner has no lnb control but for most recording combinations the second tuner has approx 50% of the total channels for 2nd recording and can also view some 3rd channels.

    You need to understand the relationship between the two channels being recorded.

    Example A Humax Freesat+ box recording say BBC 1 HD and BBC 2 -HD with a English postcode using only a single cable only uses a single tuner. The second tuner has no lnb control but it can be used to watch/record any other channel using the same band and polarisation as tuner 1 is using.

    In the above example BBC 1 HD England and BBC 2 - HD use transponder 10847 Vertical, that's a low band vertical polarised transponder. The second tuner can record any channel that are on your epg (normally postcode limited but not in the case of BBC channels).

    This is the list including transponder frequency (bear in mind none BBC channels may not be visible in the epg depending on the postcode used for set up). The logical channel numbers refer to a freesat box)

    123 E4 + 1 10729 V
    124 More4 10729 V
    301 Film4 + 1 10729 V
    975 Channel 4 + 1 10729 V
    103 ITV 10758 V
    113 ITV2 10758 V
    117 ITV4 10758 V
    118 ITVBe 10758 V
    154 ITV4+1 10758 V
    602 CITV 10758 V
    977 ITV London 10758 V
    103 ITV London 10758 V
    103 ITV Granada 10758 V
    103 ITV Anglia East 10758 V
    103 ITV Central West 10758 V
    101 BBC One W Mid 10788 V
    201 BBC Parliament 10788 V
    703 BBC Radio 3 10788 V
    704 BBC Radio 4 FM 10788 V
    707 BBC 6Music 10788 V
    708 BBC Radio 4 Ex 10788 V
    710 BBC Radio 4 LW 10788 V
    711 BBC World Sv 10788 V
    712 BBC R Scotland 10788 V
    713 BBC RnGaidheal 10788 V
    714 BBC R Wales 10788 V
    715 BBC R Cymru 10788 V
    716 BBC R Ulster 10788 V
    717 BBCRadioFoyle 10788 V
    952 BBC One E Mid 10788 V
    953 BBC One East E 10788 V
    963 BBC One W Mid 10788 V
    964 BBC One Wales 10788 V
    967 BBC One Yk&Li 10788 V
    971 BBC Two Wales 10788 V
    212 BBC NEWS 10817 V
    607 CBBC 10817 V
    957 BBC One NI 10817 V
    958 BBC One Oxford 10817 V
    961 BBC One South 10817 V
    962 BBC One S West 10817 V
    969 BBC Two NI 10817 V
    102 BBC Two HD 10847 V
    106 BBC One HD 10847 V
    600 CBBC HD 10847 V
    972 BBC One HD 10847 V
    978 BBC One NI HD 10847 V
    115 ITV3 10906 V
    116 ITV3+1 10906 V
    731 talkSPORT 10906 V
    112 STV East + 1 10906 V
    103 STV North 10906 V
    103 STV Central West 10906 V
    103 STV Central East 10906 V
    112 ITV Granada + 1 10906 V
    103 ITV Channel TV 10906 V
    111 STV HD 11068 V
    111 ITV HD 11097 V
    111 ITV London HD 11097 V
    111 ITV Granada HD 11097 V
    111 ITV Meridian South HD 11097 V
    111 ITV Central West HD 11097 V
    111 ITV HD Anglia East 11097 V
    111 ITV HD Yorkshire West 11097 V
    127 4seven 11126 V
    206 RT HD 11225 V
    209 NHKWORLD-JAPAN 11225 V
    214 Arirang TV 11225 V
    692 Revelation 11265 V
    142 True Ent 11306 V
    143 Sony Crime 11306 V
    152 True Ent+ 1 11306 V
    154 true ent 11306 V
    302 True Movies 11306 V
    303 True Movies +1 11306 V
    501 The Vault 11306 V
    603 POP 11306 V
    605 Tiny Pop 11306 V
    604 POP Max 11306 V
    606 POP +1 11306 V
    134 CBS Drama 11343 V
    136 CBS Reality +1 11343 V
    139 horror ch+1 11343 V
    135 CBS Reality 11343 V
    137 CBS Action 11343 V
    138 horror channel 11343 V
    156 YourTV 11343 V
    693 ISLAM CHANNEL 11390 V
    695 Sonlife TV 11390 V
    143 Sony Crime 2 11426 V
    148 Food Network 11426 V
    149 Food Network+1 11426 V
    155 PBS America 11426 V
    167 QUEST HD 11426 V
    205 FRANCE 24(ENG) 11426 V
    252 Freesports 11426 V
    210 CNBC 11479 V
    215 TRT World 11508 V
    306 TalkingPics TV 11538 V
    790 TWR 11538 V
    694 GOD Channel 11567 V
    806 JML Direct 11567 V
    151 Travel Ch +1 11597 V
    161 CLTV 11597 V
    171 YANGA! 11597 V
    213 CHANNELS24 11597 V
    695 Sonlife TV 11597 V
    809 TJC 11597 V
    812 Ideal World 11597 V
    813 Create & Craft 11597 V
    208 Bloomberg TV 11685 V
    691 DAYSTAR TV HD 11685 V

    In addition you can view any other channel on 10847 V and the transponder used for the second recording. On a 2nd generation Humax (G2) box you can also live pause the 3rd channel (and also record it if viewed from the beginning once one of the recordings finishes). Sky-HD boxes recording wise are very limited.

    For more info - see here

    What can I record and watch using 1 or 2 cables « My Humax Forum
     
  10. sagaris99

    sagaris99
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    Yes. I think we’re agreeing on the same point here. We have however, diverted off topic. We agree that no tv can by itself split the signal from a sat cable to allow multiple channels to be watched and recorded simultaneously. A regular LNB can indeed by used for any multitude of uses, be it one cable into a Humax box giving simultaneous use. But it still remains that should one have a 2 output Sky supplied LNB, you are for want of a better word, stuffed.
     
  11. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    Still lost, a Sky lnb is a regular lnb (a Ku band universal), it's just designed to fit a Sky type dish which is wider than it's tall. That's purely down to what shape the dish looks from the offset position. I repeat there is no difference in the signals received. eg BBC 1-HD is the same transmission, it matters not a jot if you use a dish and lnb that Sky would fit or any other dish. If it has a Ku band universal lnb it will work just fine.

    Twin output Sky lnbs happen to have been discontinued a long time ago so on a modern install it will be a Sky-Q lnb so yes unsuitable for legacy kit, that has never been in doubt.

    It's your odd posts that could well confuse, someone may have a twin lnb either bodged onto a Sky type dish or a different dish.

    If you have a newish sky type dish (wider than tall) with only two outputs it's not suitable for anything other than Sky-Q. It's not a universal lnb.

    You can easily swap for either a 6 output Hybrid LNB (which also supports Sky-Q) or a 4 or 8 output universal lnb.


    Suggest you do some reading. You clearly are totally confused.

    LNB mysteries explained - part 1

    LNB mysteries explained - part 2
     
  12. sagaris99

    sagaris99
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    I’m sorry I clearly didn’t make myself clear enough. *We agree on the same thing*.
    Not sure they’ve been discountined, can confirm that a Sky Q installation done to my property not 8 weeks ago is using a 2 output dish/lnb.

    I’ve never disagreed, or actually gone into the detail of frequencies. You’ve gone into way too much detail for a simple thread question, such that it’s comical you’re accusing me of being confused. The likelihood is that not only will the OP not get simultaneous viewing through one cable, it’s more than likely the cable will not work at all, given that Sky generally have, and still do, fit 2 output lnb’s to the dishes.

    As to whether or not I need to do some reading (not really sure I need to read into the depth a retired electrical engineer has frankly), the detail to which you’ve so helpfully gone into probably confused the OP even more.

    To close this discussion (OP if you’re still reading I apologise). The C8 and E8 OLEDs unfortunately do not possess twin Sat tuners. Nor do they posses the technology to split the signal from one sat tuner to allow you to simultaneously watch and record. It is highly unlikely, unless you have specified from Sky, that you will be able to simply take the sat cables from the Sky Q box and plug straight into the TV. You can, however, change the LNB on the dish to allow you to use the sat cables for non SkyQ uses, though one generally might want a professional to do it to ensure it’s done properly.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  13. SuperSam

    SuperSam
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    Thank you for the replies.

    A lot of information there. Defo something to keep in mind, I was looking forward to getting rid of sky but that might be a bit more of a challenge than I thought.

    Amazon sell hybrid LNBs are they as easy to fit as they look?
     
  14. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
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    Yes - disconnect the coax cabling and remove the securing pin and pull the old lnb off the end of the arm. Slot in the new hybrid lnb replace pin and reconnect the cabling. Any two connections can be used for Sky Q.

    It's no more difficult than connecting the cables to a satellite box or TV despite what sagaris99 suggests. Slightly more difficult is aligning a dish from scratch as the dish is already aligned it isn't an issue.

    He thinks you don't have to understand how things work to know what is possible and frankly he clearly has never installed a dish from scratch. It's not rocket science, the fitters that Sky use likely get an hours training (fit a dish by numbers basically).


    I would have thought e-bay would be a cheaper source.

    However if you are getting rid of Sky-HD the existing standard 4 output lnb (universal) can be used to feed up to 4 tuners. A hybrid lnb is only needed for a Sky-Q box, the arrangement allows just two cables to feed multiple tuners in a Sky-Q box as I attempted to explain only to be told I was confusing things - utter rubbish.

    Basically a quad universal lnb single or twin tuner TV and a twin tuner Freesat+ box. A octo lnb feeds up to 8 tuners.

    If you want to test the satellite tuner in your TV, turn off the power to the Sky box and temporarily move the tuner 2 in coax to the TV satellite connection.

    Otherwise just run another cable from the lnb to the TV.
     
  15. SuperSam

    SuperSam
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    It sounds easy enough to change. I presume I would still need to change the cables from the 'Q' sockets to the 'freesat/HD/Other' sockets on the hybrid LNB when my Q subscription is up in 10weeks and want to plug it straight into the tele?
     
  16. SuperSam

    SuperSam
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    ... having re-read your post I see you have already answered the question....
     

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