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Dying for Drugs... C4 last night...

Discussion in 'TV Show Forum' started by dc007, Apr 28, 2003.

  1. dc007

    dc007
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    Stunning programme, a total condemnation of the drug giants Pfizer and Novartis in particular.

    To see that poor lad dying of HIV in Honduras because his family couldn't afford his $20 a day drug dose whilst just over the border the same drug sells for 10c...

    To see Koreans slowly wasting away from Leukemia because the treatment that would keep them alive cost $19 a tablet and 8 tablets a day... and Novartis won't lower the price... and Cipro, the Indian company, could sell the drug for $1 a tablet but would infringe the patent if they did...

    To see Pfizer testing drugs on Nigerian kids without any ort of written consent, because they can't get permission to test in he States....

    I know the arguments from the companies with regards to the cost for developing these drugs in the first place, but some of these people should hang their heads in total shame....
     
  2. Ian Cox

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    I caught the last 30 minutes of this last night and it was very disturbing. To see that poor kid who was about 11 look like an old man and nothing but skin and bone makes me question at times the sort of capitalist society that we live in.

    Totally agree as I feel these drug companies have a moral responsibility as they produce a product that will save or dramatically extend someone’s life. I am sure they make enough money from selling their drugs in western countries that would enable them to sell cheaper versions in the poor countries where they are really needed. This is the big problem facing Africa at the moment as aids is going to kill millions there in the coming years and no one can do anything about it partly because the drug companies will not lower their prices, absolutely despicable :mad:
     
  3. mjn

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    i'm going to get flamed for this....but....

    .....about time some people died all over the world, its overcrowded as it is!

    Birth rates are already dropping in Ireland, due to 1 in 4 women being infertile.
     
  4. chard

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    as biased a programme as you could ever hope to see:mad:

    It set out to paint the Pharma industry as evil as Alan Rickman in Robin Hood.

    It made no attempt to show the 'other side'.

    Drugs do cost a lot to produce - and there is a limited amount of time to recoup those costs before 'pirates' make copies . Those Indian companies are just like video pirates copying DVD'S and selling them on cheaper, after someone else has spent a firtune producing the original material.

    If pirates or Generic drug companies are allowed to flourish then there will be even fewer companies willing to do the research and development for new drugs.

    I am sorry those poor folk couldn't afford the drugs they needed, but who should pay ?

    If you suggest the drug companies, then they will have to pass the socts on to the first world - should we in Britain pay to subsidise the drugs in the third world ?

    Perhaps the programme should have considered the priorities in those countries who spend more on their Military than they do on their people !

    The programme interviewed Drs, but these Drs neglected to point out that they themselves charge the drug companies a lot of money to help with the trials :eek: This is a significant proportion of the R&D costs. Your Drs don't do these trials for the good of humanity unfortunately.....

    You would not get Coca Cola or Ford or JCB allowing third countries to copy their product, but hey, lets put thousands in the UK pharma industry out of work !!?

    To those who are disgusted that the poor people in this programme don't get free drugs, then why don't they put their own hands in their own pockets and sell their DVD's, amplifiers, TV's and send the money to help !?.....no ?....didn't think so, they would much rather ask someone else to pay.....
     
  5. calibos

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    MJN,

    You surprise me. Even if it was a tongue in cheek comment I think its still a tad tasteless. :rolleyes:

    Yes the world is overcrowded but I don't think the answer is killing or letting the people who are alive now die needlessly. We have to curb the birthrate.....and I don't mean sterilisation:nono: Maybe if the worlds religious leaders, the pope being the biggest culprit stopped telling the worlds poor that it was a sin to use a condom. Anyway the world would be a much better place if people stopped believing in religion which is a leftover from our primitive superstitious past. That programme "The Second Coming" hit the nail on the head. God and us realise that we would be better off without him!! ;) :D
     
  6. Shoka

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    Although the world is very overcrowded, to wish that upon anyone is cruel to say the least .

    The situation of overpopulation is obviously going to be a problem. Reminds me of the film Fortress where you have to have a liscence to have a baby.
     
  7. mjn

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    just heard on the radio that GSK is dropping the prices of their Aids drugs to 63 developing countries, such as most of Africa.
     
  8. mjn

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    well China is close.....only allowed to have 1 child.
     
  9. captaindobie

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    Sorry, didn't see the programme. Sounds very interesting.

    Re: Fortress and having to obtain a licence to have a baby.

    To me, this does not sound like a bad idea. I mean, you have to have a licence for a dog but anybody can have a baby!
    I am looking to adopt 2 cats this week and have to go through a home visit before i am given the OK.
    'tis a very strange society than we live in.:confused:
     
  10. Squirrel God

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    Let's not be reminded what they do to 'extra' children from the families that exceed that quota :(
     
  11. Gambit

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    The problem drug companies will always face is the fact that people need their products. You don't need a £2,000 HC but you'll pay it because you want it, but if you got cancer and there was a treatment on the market and it cost £2,000, you would be incenced. People don't mind shelling out for luxury items, but as soon as you charge lots for something they need, it's scandalous. As it stands, lots of drug are very costly to manufacture - an experimental cancer cure, Cys-platin, uses Platinum as a major "ingredient" and as such, is very costly. Thalydamide, the horror anti-morning sickness drug of the 60's, works perfectly 50% of the time as the "left-handed" version of the molecule is fine, it's the "right-handed" isomer that cause the birth defects, and so it must be grown organically to produce only the left handed molecule (and obviously marketed under a different name). So much money is made by the drug companies only after years and years of investment, R+D, FDA approvals and much more. If you lived in a foreign country, would you expect to pay less for your HC gear because you were poorer? No, becuse you want it, you don't need it, but the drug companies probably puts in more effort and time and money than the HC company ever will.
     
  12. dc007

    dc007
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    I can well understand the cost of R&D for these drugs, but in the case of Novartis and Glivec, a Leukemia drug, the company charge $19 a capsule in Korea and you need 8 capsules a day = $55,500 per patient per year. The drug was developed and bought to market in just 2 years because it was given 'fast track' approval, as authorities decided it was so important. They have the patent for 20 years. Seems a little OTT.

    Anyway, to those that stress the hard economic realities of life - it's easy to write this down and send it to a forum. I'd like to see you expalin it face to face to one of those men dying from Leukemia whilst his family looked on, or explaining to a mother why she must pay $18 for one capsule of one drug to save her child whilst the same capsule can be bought for 10c just a mile over he border.....
     
  13. Gambit

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    And it's easy to guilt trip in the same way - why haven't all the people who feel so strongly about this sold up all their unneccesaries, all their luxuries and given it all to charity or gone out and bought the drugs for these people? Because people aren't like that. I'm not saying that I agree with drug company's because I disagree with most company's pricing on most things but I thought it only fair to present facts: it's a big wide world and shock of shocks, people want rewarding and paying for their endeavours. If drug company's are not given the money they are, then they go out of business and then no new drugs are developed. Fact. Science is a suffering filed because no-one wants to pay for what you make, so why make it? For the good of man-kind? I hate to be sceptical, but very few people our genuinly out to help man-kind.
     
  14. dc007

    dc007
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    I have to admit, I side with your viewpoint and more....

    I believe one of the main reasons we have so many hereditary diseases is because we have so many drugs developed that allow these sufferers to live, procreate... and pass the hereditary diseases on to the next generation.

    Such (hereditary) diseases are rare in animals because they die out through natural selection.

    All I'm suggesting is perhaps there ought to be more government funding into drug research, to make it less of a commercial venture.
     
  15. Gambit

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    That would be a god send in the eyes of most, but knowing our lot not much would change except the money would go to the government to be "lost" or wasted. It's a tricky time. Pharmeceuticals are obviously big business, but I guess eventually pressure over issues like this one is going to prompt some kind of change, but then I don't know what will happen.
     
  16. dc007

    dc007
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    Its a sign of the (commercial) times when there are apparently EIGHT different erectile dysfunction drugs under development at the moment !! So much for slowing population growth !

    Have to confess, I have my little supply of Cialis on the way, purely by way of experimentation....:devil:
     
  17. Gambit

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    A prime example - people are willing to pay for viagra because it's not really one of those need drugs, you won't die if you can't get an errection but it's a want. Most men want a bigger errection for a longer amount of time, but it's not key. There has been more and more scientific research into lesure products because people will pay for them. If you read Jurrasic Park, there's some very good long dialogues on it, presented in non-scientific ways (with a cracking story to boot)
     
  18. dc007

    dc007
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    I stand guilty as charged.
     
  19. Gambit

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    Hell, we all do:devil:

    Except me. I'm confident. ahem.
     
  20. James45

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    I couldn't agree more, and I also agree with mjn, we've reached the point now where, as a species, we are no longer evolving because we have too much control over our own development through science. It's all very well being sentimental but its killing us as a species.
     
  21. chard

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    Gambit,
    I agreed with your posts here. I hated the simplification and emotional blackmail of this programme.

    Difficult decisions are made over costs in all countries, even the UK every single day.

    There is not an unlimited supply of money to treat people - fact.

    There are judgements made as to who should get an expensive treatment, operation, drug based on a cost/benefit calculation. Drs make this judgement andthey are just as sad as the litle boy exploited in this programme.

    Pharma companies make less profits than coca cola and Levis, they are subject to more scrutiny than any other industry..but if they cannot make a profit, then these drugs will not be made - fact.
     
  22. Gambit

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    Thanks Chard, I like to see people realising that the drug industry is a industry after all and not a service that can be relied upon no matter what. It's not, and only through the fact that we pay for things does it continue.

    With regards to human evolution, I don't think science can stop it. the only thing science can do is make us live longer. Human's are unusual in the fact that we don't kill our old or injured. If we lived in the wild, they would be picked off by predators, but we have no major predators. If you believe that evolution is affected by behaviour (which some do) I can see how you might think that, but we've got a long way to go before we've finished IMO. But the most common theory of evoluton is via genetic mutation, which we're in no real way to stop at the moment. Gene therapy is imporving, yes, but not as far advanced you might thin. A conundrum indeed :D
     

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