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DVI board for Panasonic P6

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by NeilMcRae, Nov 14, 2003.

  1. NeilMcRae

    NeilMcRae
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    Anyone bought one of these recently ? Has the firmware fixed been applied so that you get the correct resolution? Thanks!

    Regards,
    Neil.
     
  2. andybryant

    andybryant
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    Bump-tiddly-ump. Also interested in the same question.

    I'm trying to get to grips with the best way to drive a plasma at native resolution from a HTPC. I think DVI has got to be the best answer, but if the DVI i/p doesn't support NR, then it isn't.

    Also - I've been away from the boards for a few months, and in my absence, we've got a new interface standard (HDMI).

    Is HDMI cross compatible with DVI (for video only... obviously)?

    Cheers, Andy.
     
  3. NeilMcRae

    NeilMcRae
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    any resellers care to comment?! Money is waiting if this issue has been resolved!
     
  4. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    Panasonic are testing the DVI board tomorrow. TAG are on board (excuse the pun) since the PSM module is not compatible, and I know Pana have a pixel perfect card so that all resolutions can be tested with all plasmas. However, these things do take time to investigate, generate fixes, re-test etc etc so don't expect answers any time soon - but at least we know something positive is definitely being done....
     
  5. NeilMcRae

    NeilMcRae
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    Thanks Liam please keep us informed!
     
  6. BertG

    BertG
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    I have been expecting an answer for over 3 months now.
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I can get several resolutions working in DVI but the 852x480@60 I can't get geometrically correct......and at 50Hz it's a mess....

    Gordon
     
  8. deman77

    deman77
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    gordon,

    please don't tell me you replaced your 433MXE with PW6
     
  9. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    OK I wont. I do have a D6 sitting in front of me that I am investiagting though....

    Gordon
     
  10. BertG

    BertG
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    Driving it with what?

    Apart from a 2 pixel overscan on each side my SD is pixel perfect at 856x480. The display and DVI card is capable of native resolution, it (currently) isn't capable of telling anything what its native resolution is.

    The other issue I had is with the DVI card in slot 2 picture adjustments (width etc) are not remembered - it is OK in the other slot.
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  12. deman77

    deman77
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    BertG,

    Could you expand on your experience as you seem to be the only one who managed to get the DVI board on D6 do the job
     
  13. BertG

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    I posted most of at the time (3 months ago).

    I got the TY-42TM6D DVI card for connection to an HTPC. I got a cheap Radeon 9000 Pro II card for the DVI out.

    The Radeon would only drive the display at 640x480, 800x600 or 1024x768. I searched around for any information and utilities I could use to get the card driving it at some other resolution (including powerstrip) and failed. I tried the display on a Matox Parhelia and only got 1024x768 but I didn't search for any tweaks or tools for the Parhelia. DVI being all new and plug n play compatible it seems graphic cards take the information provided by the display on the DVI interface as gospel and the DVI card says it supports 640x480, 800x600 and 1024x768 all at 60Hz and nothing more.

    I even pulled the display data pins out of a DVI cable to prevent the graphics card getting the information and the card refused to acknowledge the display was connected.

    I then started to investigate what this data from the display was and how it was held on the DVI card. I found it is covered by a VESA standard and found enough information and tools to understand and edit it. I also found the data is held on the DVI card in a small serial EEPROM which is more or less directly connected to the DVI socket (It can even be programmed via the DVI socket). The information is know as Display Information Data (DID or the extended version EDID).

    I edited the data to include a description of the display's natural resolution guessing at some of the timings and after a couple of attempts I was happy with the result and have been using it ever since.

    This is the descriptor I added

    (54-71) Detailed Timing / Descriptor Block 1:
    856x480 Pixel Clock: 33.55 MHz
    __________________________________________________
    Horizontal Image Size: 920 mm Vertical Image Size: 518 mm
    Refreshed Mode: Non-Interlaced Normal Display - No Stereo

    Horizontal:
    Active Time: 856 pixels Blanking Time: 208 pixels
    Sync Offset: 72 pixels Sync Pulse Width: 128 pixels
    Border: 0 pixels Frequency: 31.53 KHz

    Vertical:
    Active Time: 480 lines Blanking Time: 46 lines
    Sync Offset: 14 lines Sync Pulse Width: 12 lines
    Border: 0 lines Frequency: 59.95 Hz

    Digital Separate, Horizontal Polarity (-) Vertical Polarity (-)

    I don't know if it is right, or optimal but it works for me. I have been waiting for Panasonic to come up with what they think it should be.

    I set it to 856x480 not 852x480 to match what the Radeon can generate but I suspect the Radeon would interpret 852 as 856 anyway.

    After adjusting the display width and height on the Panasonic it is pixel perfect with a 2 pixel overscan on each side. I also noticed that these width and height adjustments were forgotten as soon as I switched inputs or changed modes - just to spite me after doing all that work it seemed, however, in desperation I tried the DVI card in slot 1 rather than slot 2 and it then remembered the settings.

    In my experience the apart from the forgotten settings issue the DVI card has no problem driving the display in native resolutions providing you can convince whatever you are driving it with to do so.

    I have no idea if other DVI sources use or require DID information, I would think it likely.
     
  14. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    Not sure if Panasonic needed to adjust DID info on the card (am trying to get this confirmed, but soooooo busy) but using a Pixel Perfect card with DVI connection, they had no problems achieving 852*480 on the 42PWD6, 1024*768 on the 42PHD6 and 1366*768 on the 50PHD6.

    They also got themselves a High Def video server and ran 720P and 1080i (high def MPEG2 with a bitrate of more than 20Mbps!!!) via DVI and were basically gobsmacked :D

    A note was made that the iScan Ultra and TAG PSM Module were apparently incompatbile due to these processors outputting a 572P rather than a 576P resolution (from a PAL video source, NTSC is fine). So the only problem is that the card will not have any joy with a 572P signal which it seems the SiL504 chip generates via DVI (it generates 576P via prog scan component).
     
  15. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello all

    The 'issue' with Graphic Cards and compatibility with the TY-42TM6DB DVI card seems to be about how most graphics cards address the display in groups of 8 Pixels - which the Pixel Perfect card doesn't do.

    Pixel Perfect cards are designed for wide screen displays and offer 1:1 pixel mapping.

    Panasonic have offered to test other graphics cards - though I know Panasonic have already talked to Radeon who said their cards (even with Powerstrip) wont resolve 1366 as its not divisible by 8 (though as BetrG reports he has a Radeon working so maybe BertG needs to go educate Radeon :) )

    Trust this helps.

    Joe
     
  16. cwick

    cwick
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  17. leedsfireman

    leedsfireman
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    Do people still think that the panny 6 is still not a good choice at the moment for the DVI connection or do you think panny are going to sort the problem out & offer some sort of upgrade?
     
  18. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello Andy

    The 'solution' is to use a Graphic Card that is designed for use with Wide Screen displays - or so I'm told.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  19. leedsfireman

    leedsfireman
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    Sorry i was refering to the use of a dvd player with DVI output.
     
  20. cwick

    cwick
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    Andy,

    The DVI input is fine with my Momitsu player at 480p, but I don't think you'll be able to tell beforehand if any given player will work out of the box, e.g. just by reading specs.

    It's all a bit hit a miss at the moment - this DVI/HDMI stuff is still a little green right now, and interoperability seems to be a bit of a gamble.

    Cheers, Carl.
     
  21. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    I have a Radeon running at 1366x768 at 60,70,72,75,80Hz on Panny5 50" via VGA; was not a problem to setup in PowerStrip at all.

    StooMonster
     
  22. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello StooMonster

    Should have been clearer its 1366 x768 via DVI on the 6 Series that's the problem - VGA is no problem as you say.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  23. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Hence my quote, and mention of VGA. :)

    Interesting on the SiI504 output at 572P though, how strange is that?

    StooMonster
     
  24. Nic Rhodes

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    The Iscan ultra actually has two 480P resolutions as well :)
     
  25. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    Yes it does, it changes the width of the output resolution from 720x480 to VGA 640x480 (some displays only accept computer resolutions via DVI). It does the same for PAL sources too, switching between 720x572 and 640x572 (although the manual quotes 720 or 640 wide by 576 lines).
     
  26. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Liam

    didn't know that about PAL on the ultra, have they tweaked this? If so good, if not I must read the manual more closely :)
     
  27. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    give us your email addy and i'll mail you a copy
     
  28. leedsfireman

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    Sorry to sound a bit thick but i'm no tech head, am i right in thinking that at present the panny 6 will not accept a PAL signal ( R2 dvd ) from a dvd player via the DVI port, or am i as thick as i think i am.
    Andy
     
  29. Liam @ Prog AV

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    If the DVD player takes a PAL source and purely deinterlaces it without any scaling etc, in theory the picture should be a 576P signal which is no probs.

    The iScan and TAG module when they take a PAL signal, for some reason convert it into a 572P signal with a lump of excess blanking attached to it - it is this signal that the Panasonic DVI card does not understand.
     
  30. BertG

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    I have a Radeon running at 856x480 which is divisible by 8 and results in a 2 pixel overscan on each side. It will also do 848x480 giving a 2 pixel margin each side. I don't see why a Radeon won't do 1368 giving a 1 pixel overscan on the 50" panny.

    I don't see that overscanning 1 or 2 pixels is any kind of problem. The problem is the DVI card doesn't tell the graphic cards what the display native resolution is so it being able to generate it or not is a bit irrelevant.
     

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