1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

DVD's with DD2.0

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by dfield2000, Jul 10, 2003.

  1. dfield2000

    dfield2000
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Messages:
    957
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Ratings:
    +5
    If I watch a film which has DD 2.0 sound, for example 'They Live', what is the preferred sound mode to listen use ? If I set my amp to 2 channel stereo mode I obviously only get the front two speakers. If I set the amp to surround, I presume I'll get sound out of all five speakers, but is this the amp just artificially splitting up the 2 channels, or is the surround encoding on the disk itself. Sorry if I'm not making any sense here - this is just a symptom of my ignorance.

    I remember my old pro logic surround decoder which would take in stereo analogue feeds from tv broadcasts and decode this into 4.0 pro logic. Does this mean that in the same manner a DD stereo signal can also be split up in a similar fashion ?
     
  2. mjn

    mjn
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2001
    Messages:
    17,605
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Herts, England
    Ratings:
    +4,524
    just use plain 2.0....don't bother with pro-logic or pro-logic II
     
  3. Squirrel God

    Squirrel God
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    dfield,

    I take it your post meant Dolby Digital 2.0 stereo? I would use Pro Logic II (or similar) as it shifts the dialogue to the centre speaker and can steer effects to the rears also. There is no surround information encoded onto 2.0 stereo soundtracks, so yes the surround information is 'artificially' steered, as you suggested.

    If you meant Dolby Digital 2.0 surround, then yes the surround information is encoded onto the disk (it's mixed into the left and right channels, hence why it's still 2.0).
     
  4. Confucius

    Confucius
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2001
    Messages:
    2,103
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Oxford
    Ratings:
    +90
    Sound mode?

    If you have PLII (or DTS Neo 6) give them a try, as for other modes it rather depends on whether the DD2.0 is stereo, mono or surround.

    Mono or stereo might well sound 'odd' when subjected to PL (vanilla) processing.

    Experiment to see!
     
  5. dfield2000

    dfield2000
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Messages:
    957
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Ratings:
    +5
    Thanks for the replies.

    I've didn't realise that there were two different DD 2.0 formats - Stereo and Surround. I'll have to check the packaging. Like I said, I watched 'They Live' last week and I put the amp on 2-Channel stereo, and to be honest it sounded really good. I think it's because the vocals come out of the two front mains instead of the single centre speaker. I've got a B&W lcr60 perched on top of the tv, and the vocal channels can sometimes be washed out by the rest of the soundtrack. I've noticed this before when I've left my amp on 2-channel mode after listening to a cd, and then I switch over to sky. The vocals sound quite strong coming out of the front 2, but as soon as I switch it back to surround and the vocals get switched to the centre they suddenly sound a bit muted and loose quite a bit of presence. I've always thought it was a bit of a weak point in the set up, because your front two mains are usually quite big and beefy, but all the dialogue gets rooted to the front centre which is invariable an inferior speaker when compared to the front 2.

    I watched 'Spaced' last night, which is also in two channel, so I again set the amp to 2 channel mode - but I presume as this went out on channel 4 a couple of years ago it was originally done in Pro Logic ? My ageing sony amp does not have pl2.

    Cheers
     
  6. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Have you used a sound pressure meter with the amps built-in tones?

    And has your amp got seperate Pro-Logic, Dolby Digital & DTS settings?

    I've never had the problem of a centre being "washed out" even with a cheaper centre- try knocking the centre adjustment up by a couple of clicks.
     
  7. dfield2000

    dfield2000
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Messages:
    957
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Ratings:
    +5
    I've used a sound meter with the Avia disk, and according to that the centre is the same level as the mains without any adjustment - although I usually end up cranking it up to +3 for most films. It's just the actual 'tone' of the vocals sound more crisp when routed through the front mains instead of the single centre.

    I think I've discussed this on the Speakers section before, and people have commented that the centre can be at a disadvantage to the main in respect of it not being on a proper stand like the front 2 (ie, balancing on top of the telly) and also that it is higher than the other two and therefore the tweeter is well above 'ear' height when sitting on the sofa. I think in an ideal setup you should have exactly the same speaker for the front three.
     
  8. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    No probs in my setup (or a mates) centre is not on a stand- was a TV- and is above the left/right tweeters; since getting the RP- now slightly below the left/right tweeters- again no problems.

    Kef Ref 2.2 left/rights, Model 200 centre.. also used Kef Q95 centre (with previous Kef Q75 left/rights), B&W CC6 in a older setup)

    What processing/poweramps have you got?

    I did notice changing from a Yamaha AV amp (DVD players own DD processor) to a Denon AVD-2000 and getting high quality poweramps helped the soundstage...but then it should!! :)
     
  9. dfield2000

    dfield2000
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Messages:
    957
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Ratings:
    +5
    The centre is higher than the mains. From the listening position the centre is quite a way up from ear height. I would like to rasie up the back of the speaker so that it is pointing downwards, but I can't see how that would be done without is sliding off the tv !

    I've tried putting it vertically next to the tv, but then it's too close to one of the mains for my liking and there wasn't any difference in the levels.

    Maybe it is the amp. I went over to a mates house (JFK) who has the same three front speakers but a Yamaha amp, and it sounded much better than mine. I've got a Sony str- db 930 (or is it the 940??). Not sure if it's worth upgrading it as I don't really know what price bracket I would have to go up to before I would get an improvement.
     
  10. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    "Sony str-db 930 "

    Not surprised then. Sony AV amp's are notoriously bad at driving low impedance speakers.. the LCR is 3Ohm minimum.

    If the Sony has pre-outs for all channels, consider a 5 channel poweramp. This'll help loads.

    Try borrowing a good quality (100Wx5) high current poweramp from a local dealer.. connect it up and see what you think.
     
  11. dfield2000

    dfield2000
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Messages:
    957
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Ratings:
    +5
    My centre channel performance has been bugging me for ages - I'm glad I've finally got an explanation from someone - even if it is bad news.

    I was toying with the idea of getting a separate processor / power amp, but I was put off with the cost. It didn't enter my mind that I could use my existing amp as a processor and just get the amp part.

    When I've looked at processor/amp setups in the magazines they appear to be connected with some sort of din plug, which looks like the standard method. I'll have to check my sony tonight, but if it does have pre-outs I'm pretty sure they will just be the standard jacks (are they called RCA ?). Are there any issues with loosing signal quality when passing over the amp using these interconnects ? Also, can you recommend some budget power amps ?

    Thanks for your help.
     
  12. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    You'll be fine using 5 phono to phono leads (also called RCA)... just keep them short (1 or 2M) Most processors- bar the really top-end ones- use phono outputs, so unless you're willing to spend £5000K + on a processor alone there's not much you can do about !!!

    People say you should keep low-level phono's away from power cables, as it'll pickup noise. My bundle of cables is about 2 foot high (when my kit is taken apart) and never had hum problems with phono's next to mains.

    The Lexicon MC-12 balanced version has XLR outputs I believe... bit out of 99% peoples price range though :)

    Steve was/is selling the Rotel RB-985 MK II 5x poweramp.. check that out. Don't think that your Sony has similar power output (the Sony & Rotel look similar on paper) they aren't... the Rotel is a class above it.

    [edit]

    Is this your amp?

    http://www.homecinemachoice.com/testbench/Amplifiers/Sony/SonySTR-DB930.shtml

    It has pre-outs for all channels, so you can easily add poweramp(s)
     
  13. dfield2000

    dfield2000
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Messages:
    957
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Ratings:
    +5
    Yup, that's the one.

    I'm very tempted by that Rotel Mk II.

    I've been trying to think of how to come up with the £380 all afternoon. I just went onto my internet bank acount to check my statement - and low and behold - our lovely goverment has credited my with £135 for family tax credit ! It's a sign.
     
  14. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    'ere you go! :)

    here

    Or if you're desperate!
    here :laugh:
     
  15. michaelm

    michaelm
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2001
    Messages:
    678
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Belfast
    Ratings:
    +2
    Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not, btw :D ) but when a surround sound movie or programme is encoded into stereo, it retains the surround matrix and hence, when decoded by a surround sound processor, ie DPL or DPLII, the surround soundfield comes in to play. So a DD2.0 encoded disc could, theoretically, be in surround sound.

    It's what "specialist" mags like HCC and HE have always told us. The best way to find out is to try it on individual discs.
     

Share This Page

Loading...