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DVDs on 50Hz and 100Hz TVs

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by Greyhound, Oct 23, 2000.

  1. Greyhound

    Greyhound
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    Made further enquiries about a couple of Tvs I'm after (Panasonic PK1 -50Hz and PK20 - 100Hz) and was told by the assistant that DVDs play far more superior on 100Hz than 50Hz. Is this true?

    It seems that all sale assistants say go for 100Hz as the picture is far better and that there is no disadvantages with this frequency. However, it seems that some people actually prefer 50Hz due to problems they've encountered with 100Hz. As I'm not worried about flicker, can anyone help me make up my mind?! If there is some useful info that someone can direct me to I would be grateful - this has probably been done to death but I've missed it all.

    Thanks


     
  2. VINNY

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    I have 100HZ TOSHIBA 32ZD98DB, and I have to say watching a DVD is a joy to behold. Much improved clarity and vivid colours - better than any 50hz set I have seen.

    Analogue channelshowever look slightly digitized and you can forget about fast moving sports.

    If you aim to use your TV mostly for DVD then go for the 100hz.
     
  3. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    PK1 is fantastic one of the best sets around regardless of 50HZ/100Hz issues.

    I dislike 100Hz TVs they significantly deteriorate the available image quality from your source.

    Problems are: posterisation on fine gradiated areas (this is the one that bugs me most). They all do this including the Sony DRC models. Associated loss of high frequency info because of the quantisation errors above : mushy picture.
    image break-up on fast moving scenes (has improved on the newer sets).

    50Hz TVs problems are: possible visible flicker especially on large bright areas (I'm a film compositor and sit in front of a large progressive hi-res monitor all day and I don't find the flicker objectionable on my PK1 when I go home at night). With region1 dvds (525/60) the refresh is sufficiently high enough anyway to minimise flicker.

     
  4. Greyhound

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    Mr D. I've noticed that you mentioned the term 'posterisation' in other posts. Could you explain to a bumpkin like me what this is?

    I've notice that on 100Hz Tvs (I've only looked on Pannys) there is a sort of sheen to the pictures have you noticed this or am I just imagining things?

    Cheers
     
  5. Greyhound

    Greyhound
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    Analogue channelshowever look slightly digitized and you can forget about fast moving sports.

    If you aim to use your TV mostly for DVD then go for the 100hz.[/B][/QUOTE]

    Vinny, how about fast moving images on films shown on analogue channels? My main use will be watching normal TV and videos with occasional use of DVDs.

    (Sorry, screwed up the reply with quotes bit)


    [This message has been edited by Greyhound (edited 24-10-2000).]
     
  6. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Posterisation or contouring occurs when the bit-depth in a signal path isn't large enough to adequately resolve enough intesity changes to represent the original image. The trade off results in a banding effect in what should be smooth gradiations. The term posterisation comes from the old days of vision mixing when this effect was usedd as a technique to make an image look painterly. (think TOTP and Dr Who)

    It is anathema to correct digital video theory.

    If you are noticing a sheen type effect I strongly recommend you do not get a 100Hz TV as you will always notice the processed nature of the displayed image.
     
  7. mysteriousjimmy

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    I had a demo of a Metz Artos 100hz tv last weekend with DVD's, video and tv shows and was blown away by the QUALITY



    [This message has been edited by mysteriousjimmy (edited 25-10-2000).]
     
  8. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Well if you don't ever see these problems then good for you.
    However you may not actually notice the problems with these types of TV until you've paid for the thing and got it home.
    I can't help but notice these issues because its basically what I do all the time but in my experience most people end up being dissatisfied with this aspect of 100Hz sets. Once you've notice it you'll find it very difficult to ignore.
     
  9. Wayne Moule

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    In my experience you are bang on yet again Mr.D.
     
  10. Greyhound

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    Thanks Mr D. I think I understand what you mean (had to read it several times mind you!)

    I've decided to rent a 100hz set - unfortunately none of the places I contacted do the PK20 so I'll have to try another make. Is there a particular film that you've seen that shows off posterisation and other problems with 100hz to a big degree. It'll be nice to see if these problems would bug me. Like you said, if I buy this set I probably wouldn't notice potential problems until 2 months down the line. I think the 'sheen' effect can easliy be ignored as there would be nothing to compare it to.
     
  11. VINNY

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    Greyhound,

    Sorry for the delay in answering - If your main use is TV and Video and you don't see any flickering with 50hz TV's, then go for a 50hz TV. To be honest I wish I had !!
    Although DVD is superb on my 100hz TV, it is no good watching average to good pictures on analogue TV 90% of the time as I still get various artefacts appearing.

    [This message has been edited by VINNY (edited 26-10-2000).]

    [This message has been edited by VINNY (edited 26-10-2000).]
     
  12. Mr.D

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    Good idea suck it and see with no obligation.
    Starship Troopers R1 (I never give chapters its far too nerdy) Near the end when the tunnel collapses behind our heroes and lots of dust floats about in the aftermath. On a 100Hz TV you will probably find their faces do odd smeary things as the dust clears. (it won't do it on a 50Hz)

    Godzilla the subs sequence will resemble something out of the time tunnel because of the posterisation.

    Lost in Space robot destroy sequence: again lots of smoke and smooth surfaces watch the contouring go baby.

    Star Trek First Contact was so bad I thought it was a bad master until I saw it on a 50Hz TV and the problems dissapeared.

    Video Essentials (or any) gray ramp will step on 100Hz TVs it won't be smooth.
     
  13. Greyhound

    Greyhound
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    Thanks very much guys. I'm starting to sway towards 50Hz. None of these potential problems have been pointed out by shop assistants (which I don't really expect in honesty).
     
  14. Nuno Santos

    Nuno Santos
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    Mr. D:

    What was so bad about Star Trek : First Contact? I'm also in the process of buying a 32" set and since I own this movie, I'd like to know what to look for when playing it on a 50hz or 100hz set.

    Thanks.

    NS

    [This message has been edited by Nuno Santos (edited 30-10-2000).]
     
  15. Mr.D

    Mr.D
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    Lots of smooth flat gray surfaces on the interior of the enterprise. Looks very noisy pixelly and contoury on 100Hz TV. It will look fine on a 50Hz display..
     

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