I suspect that the new forced 2:2 mode was never tested with Sky HD as a source. There's simply no way to do this in the US and I don't know if any beta testing of this feature was done in the UK. For that matter, there's precious little HD material available in 2:2 in the US either.Forced 2:2 not working well here with 1080i input from sky HD box. Why on earth did they remove the 'odd' & 'even' functionality? These were the only options that produced a reliable film lock for 50Hz material. With 'Forced 2:2' it can't do a proper job of deciding whether it should be combining even or odd fields, leading to motion blur and combing. My test sources were 'I Robot' and 'SWIII: Revenge of the Sith' both 1080i from the skyHD box.
That concurs with the testing that I'm aware of.Have you tried it with 576i sources yet? I found DVDs to be problem free.
I believe that's the case (but I don't have a VP50 to verify this).I'll be checking out more 1080i material later, see if I get similar issues. I wonder if they made 'film bias' mode more film senstitive, as it seemed to give me less cadence lock drops than before, maybe give that a try too.
There should definitely be a difference, and a bigger difference than with previous versions. 'Auto' mode should be the same, but 'film bias' should be less likely to get knocked out of lock.From my (very) brief tests, it appears at though the functionality of the 'auto' and 'film bias' modes is the same (in other words, very video prone).
This shouldn't be the case, either. I believe that 48 Hz output with 60 hz 3:2 sources should be the same as in previous versions. The forced 3:2 mode with a perfect 3:2 source (i.e., no bad edits) should give you zero stutter problems.I'm also getting bad stutter with 60Hz film input and 48Hz output (this seems worse than with v1.01) using both 'film bias' and 'forced 3:2' modes. 60Hz output seems ok with the same material.
The original purpose of these new locked 2:2 and 3:2 cadence modes was for use with 'perfect' sources (e.g., HD DVD) which never had cadence disruptions. This allows frame rate conversion to multiples of the original film rate which will never, ever stutter due to loss of cadence lock.I'd hardly call a product that requires human intervention to enable film mode to be king of the film sources!!
I've run quite a few DVDs through at 'Forced 2:2' and haven't had problems with any of them so far.The 576i film material I've tested in '2:2 forced' seems fine (only tried a few minutes worth though).
I tried 'BSG' and '24' in 'Forced 2:2' and didn't have any problems, admit I didn't try Sky Movies. I'll give some a going over later.1080i 50Hz film material from the sky hd box could only be played back properly (prior to v1.03) using '2:2 odd'. It also worked in 'auto' mode in a just about acceptable manner since the deinterlacer stayed in video mode most of the time. The problems occured in 'film bias mode' where the deinterlacer would seemingly change between modes causing bluring during motion, combing and also a brief stutter at the transition. Similar problems now occur in v1.03beta with 'forced 2:2' mode, so it is impossible to playback 1080i 50Hz film correctly.
Also run several HD DVD using '3:2 forced' and not a single issue to be seen, didn't bother with 60Hz DVD though as I guessed some would have bad edits etc.Regarding the 60Hz film to 48Hz in '3:2 forced', something looks seriously wrong to me, since, I'm getting serious stutter that is far worse than v1.01 beta.
I can see difference in 1080i50 movies and 576i film sources too. My daughter was watching 'Sky Anywhere' and 'Big Momma's House 2' and the new Herbie movie. In both these there where locks drops, i.e. line twitter and moires evident, but when I put 'film bias mode' on instead there were not.There should definitely be a difference, and a bigger difference than with previous versions. 'Auto' mode should be the same, but 'film bias' should be less likely to get knocked out of lock.
I haven't downloaded this "public" version yet, I am still running the last "private" beta; but I am not getting all these issues, although I am goibg to look more closely later.I'm starting to wonder if they didn't really screw something up with this release and these new modes. Unfortunately, there's no way I can verify this as I don't have a VP50 to test. Is anyone else seeing this same behavior?
So it sounds like the new 'forced 2:2' mode is behaving the same way the 'auto' mode does. (?) I can think of a couple of explanations for this. First, maybe there's something wrong with the way the hardware is setup for HD sources and it is in auto mode.1080i 50Hz film material from the sky hd box could only be played back properly (prior to v1.03) using '2:2 odd'. It also worked in 'auto' mode in a just about acceptable manner since the deinterlacer stayed in video mode most of the time. The problems occured in 'film bias mode' where the deinterlacer would seemingly change between modes causing bluring during motion, combing and also a brief stutter at the transition. Similar problems now occur in v1.03beta with 'forced 2:2' mode, so it is impossible to playback 1080i 50Hz film correctly.
The status of the VP50 deinterlacing is about where it was when I left the company. I had completed the forced cadence modes last year, primarily due to request from some beta testers for ultra-reliable modes for HD DVD) and they're just now getting around to rolling them in. I don't believe there have been any changes made to the 'auto' modes since I left (which includes 'film bias', as it still auto-detects). Unfortunately, I never finished everything I had wanted to do before leaving, which includes improvements to the cadence detection and handling of mixed sources. They may now stay where they are unless someone else inside ABT picks thing up where I left off.Dale - I totally agree with what you are saying. Which is why I'm annoyed that no improvement has been made to the auto-detection and all the attention has gone to the force mode. No processor does it perfectly, but the VP50 less than most.
When do you get these stutters? I get them using the same settings from the xbox HDDVD player (still on 1.01 here though)Dale,
Thanks for the explanation regarding how the cadence detection/lock functions. I am absolutely certain I have selected 'forced 2:2' for sky 1080i film sources. Leaving it set to 'auto' is watchable, since it then stays in video mode (most of the time).
In addition, I reported earlier that I was getting stutter from 60Hz DVD film sources when it is set to '3:2 forced'. I can now report that I am getting the same stutter from 1080i 60Hz HD-DVD source (Toshiba HD-E1).
HD-DVD: Grand Prix (US release)
DVD: Flags of our fathers (region 1 release).
I have tested the scrolling white bar at 48Hz, and it is fine, so it is not the display. Also (as I have said previously) these problematic sources work ok with 59.94Hz output.
Maybe partially right, I've just gone through 'Mr & Mrs Smith' on Sky Movies 10 HD and it hardly combs on 'Film Bias Mode' and I've had to really try to find combing with 'Forced 2:2' (although it does for a frame or two, once in a while). Also went through some Sky One HD programmes with similar results.ihan is right, 'Forced 2:2' is not working properly on 1080i 50Hz film, it's combing all the time.