DVD Recorders?, help needed! Please

ferris57

Where did you get your E30? UK sourced ones definitely DO NOT have component out - at least mine does not. The outputs are AV1 SCART (RGB; s-video or composite); and AV4 s-video and composite round the back via 4 pin mini din and phono connectors.

If bobbles has seen a spec for the E30 quoting component it must be non-UK.

No, you quite right mate lol! I just dragged it out of the cabinet and it doesn't have component. I've bought a few players this past month and I had an image in my head of the back of the e30 and it turns out I must of been thinking of one of the others.
My mistake. Thought I better clear this up before everyone starts asking why their recorder doesn't have it ;)
 
Originally posted by calscot

If you want something that just acts as a fantastic vcr then go for the philips.

If you want something with extra features but no compatability (a bit like having a betamax in some ways but not in others) then go for the Panny.

If you want to save money, get the philips.

If you want MR out of the box at no extra cost, get the philips.

If you want to archive a lot, get the panny.

Cheers,
Cal

People have posted that the unreliability of the Philips machines means they cannot use it to replace the VCR; unlike the exceptionally reliable Panny.
Both machines make discs that are compatible on most other dvd players so compatibilty is really a non-issue.

- R media is much cheaper than + R.
Several different manufactures are bringing out -R and RAM recorders, some with hard drives.
Sony, (Philips only major ally on their format) is already hedging its bets by producing multi format machines to handle dvd-r discs as well.

Whilst other manufacturers bring out higher spec models with buiilt in hard drives as well (to allow adverts to be removed before transferring to dvd-r), the mechanics making up +RW recording means this will not happen in teh near future.

Given this, I think it's a little misleading to state that the Panny is akin to Betamax, and perhaps we need to remind ourselves of the old (Philips owned) V2000 format... (grin)

Pretty well covered in this link...New Dvd Recorders

Cheers
 
If you want something with extra features but no compatability (a bit like having a betamax in some ways but not in others) then go for the Panny.

The Panny format bears no resemblance to a Betamax scenario at all. (Ex Betamax owner). All formats are capable of producing compatible to DVD player recorded discs. So whatever format you choose you will be ok with regard to compatibility with existing DVD players. Blue-ray if it ever gets off the ground in any serious form will throw a spanner in the work for all formats and probably the present DVD format itself. So don't wait for blu-ray!!!. It may never happen as other technoligies are also in the pipe line that will achieve the longer record times of blu-ray

As I have indicated I am a biased Panny owner and certainly don't think the plus format is a suitable replacement for the VCR. Linear recording (Philips) just how backwards can that be in todays technology of Hard discs and RAM and all the flexibility they bring.

I think I can say for certain is that you would not be dissapointed with the Panny machine. Reading the plus forum which I did for months anticipating I would plum for that format I would have no confidence in assuming you would not eventually feel let down. Not just from the reliability point of view but from the functional aspects of the design as well.
 
Malcom, I also spent many weeks last summer deciding which machine to opt for and visited the +RW forum alot. Fortunately I decided on the panny and got one on the day of release :clap: no regrets at all. I've recently re-visited the +RW forum and it appears that all the happy +RW owners must have stopped visiting as it seemed to be just a forum for gripes and complaints.
Paul
 
Originally posted by Fuel Crusher
I've recently re-visited the +RW forum and it appears that all the happy +RW owners must have stopped visiting as it seemed to be just a forum for gripes and complaints.
Paul

How many gripes do you ever hear about the Panny?

'Nuff said...
 
Also, you need to remember that blue-ray machines will support DVD-R but will not support the phillips DVD+R/RW.

Nuff said.:cool:


I'm more than happy with my Panny E30.
 
have you decided yet Coopz, if you are not interested in archiving I would recommend a hard disc recorder. Sky+ is the pricey but fantastic option, TIVO is difficult to get hold of; aparently

When I was deciding on a dvd recorder the spec for the E-30 definitely quoted component output in all of the big chain specs, comet etc

However, when I questioned this they said it was because of the RGB signal, very dodgy if you ask me

the 3 normal phono sockets provide composite output not component

All DVD players should come with 3 seperate component outputs

The Panny E30 does have a DD decoder, it records in DD2 and will obviously playback DD5.1 on original DVDs

No DVDR available can record in DD5.1
 
This is getting silly. Why do so many of the panny owners insist on coming out with biased one sided stuff?

"Also, you need to remember that blue-ray machines will support DVD-R but will not support the phillips DVD+R/RW."

Does this really matter? All you need to do is plug your old +rw machine into your new Blue ray machine and copy. And like I said if it's been on telly, it'll be on again. I suppose it could be a problem if you archive a shedload of stuff off the telly.

"How many gripes do you ever hear about the Panny?"
I think I've heard gripes about EVERYTHING on this forum. You also forgot to add the word "yet" - it's less than 6 months old and I have heard gripes about the E-20... The thing that I find funny is how many gripes about the Philips you get from the Panny owners!

"The Panny format bears no resemblance to a Betamax scenario at all."

Are you sure? I'll quote myself to be clear, "a bit like having a betamax in some ways but not in others". The bit that it resembles is that (now concentrate here): If you record off the telly onto a RERECORDABLE media (examples for those not able to follow too well: betamax tape, vhs tape, DVD-RAM, DVD+RW), if you have vhs or DVD+RW, you can lend it to a lot of your mates, if you have betamax or DVD-RAM then you can't lend it to so many mates.

Now do you get the resemblance now???? Is it really so hard to understand?

You could use write once media but you'd have to decide to do this beforehand. If you use -R for everything you could end up buying a hell of a lot of disks. You also wouldn't get all the advantages of DVD-RAM so maybe you should be comparing -R with +RW?

"Linear recording (Philips) just how backwards can that be in todays technology of Hard discs and RAM and all the flexibility they bring."

Seeing as VCR is linear it how can it be a backwards step? The reason for the linearity is C-O-M-P-A-T-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y!

As far as I know, DVD-RAM is NOT quite like a hard disk on an E30. I don't think you can move things around too much or defrag etc. I've read a few complaints about how the editing features are not what was expected.

The thing is, rewritable media is now so cheap, who really cares whether they can recover all the empty space on a disk when it's easier to just shove in a new blank? When RAM disks were 20 quid a pop in October I could see your problem! Maybe that's why so many panny users go on about -r's...

"People have posted that the unreliability of the Philips machines means they cannot use it to replace the VCR; unlike the exceptionally reliable Panny."

Can you really say that the Panny is 100% reliable even though it's not yet a year old? Jumping the gun methinks. I've got a 5 year warranty on my Philips. Supposing your Panny goes "pop" in a year's time?

"Given this, I think it's a little misleading to state that the Panny is akin to Betamax, and perhaps we need to remind ourselves of the old (Philips owned) V2000 format... (grin)"

All formats can play prerecorded disks so no matter what you buy you won't be left with a white elephant. I read that V2000 was supposed to be the best quality format! :) BTW I've got philips AND panasonic gear (as well as others) so I've no loyalty to any company.

"- R media is much cheaper than + R."
Are you sure about the "much". Prices are becoming closer and RAM is also getting almost as cheap as +RW. :)

It could also be irrelevant to some people like me. I've got 15 +rw's and 0 +r's. I've never been comfortable with write once media - you have to get it right first time. How many CDR's have you chucked in the bin? At my work we've got a policy about recycling CDR's because so many are binned.

"Several different manufactures are bringing out -R and RAM recorders, some with hard drives. "

That's true, but several manufactures are bringing out +R and +RW recorders. So what is your point? Sony are bringing out hybrids with both +RW and -RW (not RAM). So maybe THAT's the one to go for...

As for the hard drives at the moment they're over 900 quid and so don't count. If the HS2 had been 400 quid in November I'd have bought one like a shot. But what I really SHOULD have done is buy a TIVO for £100 from Curries before they sold out. Doh!
But don't worry there will be +RW's with hard drives by the end of the summer.

Anyway, the point is that both are good, decide what your priorities are and don't listen too hard to anyone who seems to think that one is really that much better than the other.

Cheers,
Cal.
 
This is getting silly. Why do so many of the panny owners insist on coming out with biased one sided stuff?
Did you write this before or after you wrote your post! As a user who currently owns the HS2 and has owned the Philips DVDR1000 and Panasonic E20 I would just like to pick up on a few points.

I'll quote myself to be clear, "a bit like having a betamax in some ways but not in others".
The reason people picked out on this point Calscot is because it is utter rubbish. DVD-RAM support is increasing dramtically considering Toshiba, JVC and Hitachi are all releasing DVD-RAM models this year as well as ensuring that the 'play only' models are 'DVD Multi'. Interestingly we have seen several medium level players from these producers that wont play +RW. In short two three years down the line the compatibility issue won't be an issue: for the official formats anyway.

As far as I know, DVD-RAM is NOT quite like a hard disk on an E30. I don't think you can move things around too much or defrag etc.
I suggest you read up on the subject more. DVD-RAM has the full function of a HDD. You don't need to defrag it because the file structure does not require it - all the files are stored in a 'container' file. For the same reason you don't need to "move things around a bit".

Can you really say that the Panny is 100% reliable even though it's not yet a year old? Jumping the gun methinks. I've got a 5 year warranty on my Philips. Supposing your Panny goes "pop" in a year's time?
I couldn't believe this statement. Given the track records of the two machines (and indeed the two companies) I think there is a much greater chance of the Philips going "pop" much sooner. Just look at the +RW forums if in doubt.

But don't worry there will be +RW's with hard drives by the end of the summer.
Are you going to design it then? Sony are producing a HDD/DVDR combo that will record to HDD and -RW (and will do dubbing between them) but will NOT, I say NOT, allow dubbing to or from +RW because the linear technology doesn't allow it. Even Philips have stated that +RW is aimed at 'affordability' and will not be adopting a HDD/+RW.
 
:laugh:
Well I think the Panny IS much better. The whole point of forums such as this is for people to ask questions and for others to give answers and/or opinions. If we all said "look at all the facts and make up your own mind" threads would be very short indeed. I can voice my opinion however one sided it may seem, because I've made my choice and I made it because I thought the Panny was better. If someone wants to hear what I say it's up to them, but it's kinda pointless asking if they're gonna pick and choose what they hear.
 
If someone wants to hear what I say it's up to them, but it's kinda pointless asking if they're gonna pick and choose what they hear.
Agreed. The only people who put up a defence of the Philips are the few who have been those lucky enough to not have a faulty model AND have no experience of the Panasonic.

And as many of us probably found these fourms from one of the Home Cinema magazines then it is fair to assume everyone is more interested in quality. With this in mind it is worth noting that there seem to be many more Panny owners than Philips. I wonder why?...
 
dvd+r media sales=£40million
Dvd-r media sales=£400million

Says it all.

"Are you sure about the "much". Prices are becoming closer"

Dvd+r are 1.20 at cheapest,
Dvd-r are 40p at cheapest, so yes I would say a x3 difference is much cheaper.

Philips are doing well, because they are cheap and have mass
appeal with places like richer sounds and currys and comet promoting them. Philips have done an excellent marketing job in convincing the average punter that +r/+rw will be the standard. I have also seen comments refering to them using the same technology as cd+r/cd+rw, in an attempt to convince the less tech savy amongst us that it is the format we have been using in cd writters for years (obviously it is cd-r and cd-rw that is infact used) And because of the downright lies you see banded about claiming that its write once format is more comaptible than -r.

The compatibility issue regarding ram is inconsequential when compared to the functionality it provides. Like I've said time and time again, I can't remember ever lending a vhs to someone so why would I care about lending a ram disk. And if I want to then I can use -r.

Also the fact that almost no retailers are selling dvd-r disks is promoting the +r format amongst the internet impaired. I wonder if it's anything to do with the ridiculously high mark up they can make on +r disks by any chance.

I have yet to see an owner with both formats saying he prefers +r in general or the philips machines. I've lost count of the number of people who have bought a philips recorder and swapped it for a panny, or even taken it back and given up on dvdr completely for the time being being as they presume the other formats will be no better.
 
OK the helmet is on as well as the bullet proof vest !
I enjoy this forum for it's advice and opinions, I also wonder if I made the " right choice of format" etc but I feel how much of this is based on,
1 standing by what you bought
2 not wanting to be seen as to buying a lemon
3 wishing people genuinely buy the best for the unknown future
I do feel that people do not feel so aggressive with the choice of pure players and trade spec against price etc versus the above.
So does it matter that I have a Philips 890? I have had MANY dvd players and upgraded for many reasons only once for a fault , lip synch on Sony 525 and assume to change most of my kit sooner rather than later because I allways will.
So if/when my 890 goes tits up the discs will still play either on another dvd player or recorder and I may be recording on a chip, disc HDD.
Enjoy what ever you buy, it is far better than VHS.
Ged
 
Ged, you said ", I also wonder if I made the " right choice of format" etc " and I think that this sums up most Panny owners thoughts in that almost all of them DON'T wonder if they made the right choice. Good post though and well said.
On another note, your point 2, buying a lemon. Been there and done that I bought a philips CD-I when they first came out :suicide: :D
Regards
Paul
 
Ah, lemons! Only the other day I was seriously considering buying a laser disk player (more as a bit of memorabila...but still). Had to forget it in the end though, there was no room beside my betmax and my atari jaguar ;)
 
Thankyou Ferris57, it was lucky I put my helmet on wasn't it!
Please do not suck lemons they do not taste too good!
Does it really mean so much bitterness? Enjoy it , love it but above all USE IT.
Ged
 
Originally posted by calscot


"Also, you need to remember that blue-ray machines will support DVD-R but will not support the phillips DVD+R/RW."

Does this really matter? All you need to do is plug your old +rw machine into your new Blue ray machine and copy. And like I said if it's been on telly, it'll be on again. I suppose it could be a problem if you archive a shedload of stuff off the telly.

Cheers,
Cal.

I see your point. But your missing the point. Do I reallly want to spend the same amount of time effectively archiving the same discs all over again?:rolleyes:

No, is the sensible answer.;)

:D


I'm glad your one of the rare people whose Phillips machine hasn't gone tits up yet, but you can't ignore the evidence in the Pannys favour.;) :hiya:
 
calscot. Sorry but I stand by what I said about the DVD formats being no comparisonn to the Betamax scenerio " And yes I do understand".

Now if you have a Philips machine that does what you want and and reliably then all well and good. I am happy for you and long may you continue to enjoy your machine. In your case it has worked for you and you have made the right choice for you!!!

However,when a newbie posts a question about DVD formats I feel it only right to give that newbie an oppinnion to consider which is based on nearly 12 months personal experience with my chosen format. All are free to agree or otherwise.

I make my Panny biased comment because I don't want to be reading how unappy and frustrated some owners are on the plus forum. The plus supporters remind me of a couple at loggerheads with each but inspite of that they keep going back for more and more punishment. Then they try and tell the worlld they are happy and all is honky tonky. :D :D
 
OK lets stir it up a bit more :rotfl:

Philips DVDR880 £336 -
Empire Direct
Philips DVDR880(M) / Multi Region £378.93 delivered 24-7 Electrical
Panasonic DMR-E50 Multi Region £379 Delivered DVD Players.co.uk

So thats a Panasonic or Phillips MULTI-REGION for the same price,
So that takes cost to buy out of the equation, It really is down to whats the best format(obviously it down to personnel choice)
 
those are both excellent prices

Remember though the philips is a multiregion remote hack so will not play R1 RCE discs
 
Originally posted by malcom
I make my Panny biased comment because I....
....own one, and any owner of a brand of equipment will recommend and defend their choice. :D

All the user can do is reckon up the number of positive and negative opinions from genuine owners.
 
And then to throw another spanner in the works, Philips are bringing out machines with an EPG built in, almost 'TiVo' style.
Now if Panasonic could do this then there would be the machine to have.
 
I make my Panny biased comment because I........own one, and any owner of a brand of equipment will recommend and defend their choice.
Unless of course they are the owner of a Philips DVDR when they go to the +RW and rip into Philips because it doesn't work.
:D
 
So true, so true. You won't find me defending a bit of equipment I own if it's working in a less than satisfactory manner.:thumbsdow
 

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