1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

DVD-RAM to DVD-R

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by ammar, Apr 22, 2002.

  1. ammar

    ammar
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    :confused:

    OK, so I have recorded my F1 on DVD-RAM. How do I get the footage back to a DVD-R disk?

    I was thinking of getting the LF-D311 for the PC and then playing the DVDRAM disk in that back to a DVD-R in the DMRE20 via Firewire.

    Would that work, or is there an easier way?

    Should I be able to just take the DVD-RAM from the DMR-E20 onto the LF-D311, copy the contents to the hard disk, then use Nero or DVDIt to author a DVD-R on the same PC? If I do so will I need to encode it again or will be ready encoded?

    I feel I am missing a major issue here. Does the PC drive read DVD-RAM disks recorded on the DMRE20 straight or will it reject them?

    Until the price of DVD-RAm drops to the level of good quality DVD-R, ie around £5.00 a go, I believe many users like myself will not be having a DVD-RAM library at home, and this will always be an issue.

    I also thought of getting a TIVO with no subscription, dump the DVD-RAM from the DMRE20 to the TIVO, then play it back to a DVD-R in the DMRE20. Can the TIVO do this without subscription?

    I have about 5000 more questions on the subject, but I dont want to crash the web server.


    Ammar
     
  2. Trailblazer XP

    Trailblazer XP
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi Ammar,

    This is a route I'm looking to tread as well.

    I don't have a standalone recorder just yet, but I'm looking to get one as a possible real-time mpeg2 encoder.

    The idea is: Edit on the PC, and use firewire to go into the recorder. Then use the DVD-R disc and rip the mpeg stream off that for import into DVDIT PE, to add fancy menus etc.

    Right now it's taking an eternity to encode though software.

    I also heard that with the 4.7 Gb DVD-RAM media, you could remove the disc from the caddy, and it could be read by some DVD players and DVD-ROM drives. Do you find that you can do this?
     
  3. ammar

    ammar
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi Trailblazer XP,

    I have been trying to do some research on this question, so many unknowns.

    I have tried a few players, Wharfy, Sony PS2, Tosh 110, plus about 10 PC DVD-ROM drives to read a DVD-RAM (which I have taken out of the casing) but to no avail, it just does NOT work.

    Panasonic have 2 players DVD-RP91 and one of the portable models that CAN read DVD-RAM, but the DVD-RP91 is non-existent in the UK and the portable is beyond my mere mortal means.

    This mean I have to use the LF-D311 from a PC and Firewire back to a DVD-R in the DMRE20, or (and this will sound rediculous) get a nother DMRE20 or even a Pioneer settop DVD-R recorder and just daisy chain them.

    I the LF-D311 refuses to play video from a DMRE20 recorded DVD-RAM then I am looking at 5 DVD-RAM disk which have very valuable family videos but can only play on one machine.
     
  4. Trailblazer XP

    Trailblazer XP
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi Ammar,

    The problem I see with getting a lf-d311, is that you should be able to get the MPEG2 data off it, but I don't think there's an editor that'll output a mpeg2 stream through firewire.

    I know there's a plugin for premiere6 that claims to do this, but I have no direct experience of it.

    As regards the dvd-ram and players, the problem could be the data rate that the disc's been recorded in.

    As far as I'm aware, DVD-RAM can record at a data rate of 22Mb/sec? The max data rate of DVD-VIDEO appears to be 10Mb/sec. Could be the reason...

    I have a pioneer AO3 PC recorder, and I found that the PS2, wharfedale etc would not read DVD-R's that I'd made. However most players made around 2-3 years ago, (not budget), could read and play them fine. As could my Pioneer dvd-rom, model dvd116/2.

    Your suggestion of buying another panny or pioneer would work fine, but this defeats the whole object I think.

    Can't you record your F1 series directly onto DVD-R, or were you editing on DVD-RAM? Does DVD-R not allow pausing of the material?
     
  5. encaser

    encaser
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,566
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Suffolk/Essex
    Ratings:
    +112
    Toshiba dvd rom on www.dabs.com @£54 will read RAM discs
     
  6. malcom

    malcom
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    526
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +4
    ammar

    Even if the RP91 was available here be aware that it has no seamless playback option. I think anyone that chooses the RAM format (And I am one of them with the E20), has to face the fact that there is probably no cheap option if you require compatible DVD-R discs. (other than recording directly to DVD-R). The. quote: "rediculous" option of buying a second E20 is in fact probably the best and most convenient/alas expensive and this will give you seamless playback while the Pioneer units won't.

    Buying a drive for your computer might be cheaper if it works ok! I too would like the same answers that you are looking for. At the end of the day the difference in price of a computer RAM/R drive and software might not be a million miles from the price of a second DMR E20 if you shop around. Rediculous or not this is probably the route I shall take. Malcom
     
  7. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    Just jumping in to see if can help out.

    First of all while DVD-RAM will read/write upto 22Mbits/sec, it still only records MPEG at the top rate of 10Mbits/sec. The extra speed is used for time-slip.

    If you have a computer that reads DVD-RAM, you will be able to access the MPEG stream on the DVD. You may need to update the DVD player software so it recognises the slightly different format used on DVD-RAM discs (same applies for DVD-RW) if you wish to play the disc on a computer. There are no VOB files on a RAM disc, they are named .vro instead (Video Recording Objects.) They are not very different to .vob files and should rip in the same way and will even open and play 'as is' in Windows Media player if you have an MPEG2 codec installed.

    There is software available that claims to read and edit DVD-RAM or DVD-RW discs recorded in set-top players, see http://www.authoringware.com/junior.htm, there is a demo available for download.

    There is or should be no technical difficulty in ripping from DVD-RAMs, the files are not very different, and once ripped you will get an MPEG stream that can be immediately authored to DVD-R without re-encoding.

    It is early days at the moment with ripping streams from these types of discs so choices and options are limited, but this is changing.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  8. malcom

    malcom
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    526
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +4
    Hi PhilipL

    If a DVD-R disc is made on a computer as you describe from a RAM disc with edit points on it! Am I right in assuming that when the DVD-R is played back in a machine other than the E20 that there would NOT be seamless playback? Regards. Malcom.
     
  9. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    6,064
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +374
    I was hoping to get around this issue another way.

    If the DV Out can be enabled on the DMR-E20 then you can record whatever you have from D-Ram (post editing etc) onto DV tape on say a camcorder.

    You can then fire the recording off the DV tape through DV In and burn straight onto DVD-R.

    This gets around all the hassle of linking it up to the PC, encoding etc etc or even another DMR !

    You will need a DV camcorder though !

    I'm sure there will be a way of enabling the DV Out on this machine in good time.
     
  10. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi Malcom

    If a DVD-R disc is made on a computer as you describe from a RAM disc with edit points on it! Am I right in assuming that when the DVD-R is played back in a machine other than the E20 that there would NOT be seamless playback?

    If you re-author on a computer you have a couple of options open to you, but a lot depends I think on what software you have available.

    Your best bet would be not to worry about editing on the DVD-RAM, but instead edit on the computer. If you have edited on the DVD-RAM then what ever software you have on the computer will need to also read those edits. If it does I see no reason why it could not reconstruct the video so breaks are seemless. I am not sure such software exits though at present. Thinking about it there may be such software bundled with Panasonic DVD-RAM/R drives that may do just that, I am not sure though.

    It may be worth getting in touch with Panasonic, you might get an email address from this link, phone numbers are also shown: http://www.panasonic-industrial.com/dvdburner/flyer/DMS1.htm

    Ekko Star

    Your solution is a good one and is something I have done with a Pioneer 7000. If you are lucky, software permitting, you may be able to go straight from the Panasonic to computer without a camcorder required. Of course you need to get DV Out enabled, and I am not sure why it hasn't been. With camcorders DV In was disabled due to extra tax needed on it as it was then seen as a video recorder. This doesn't apply to the Panasonic decks so DV Out may be disabled due to copyright concerns, or is not there in the first place, as what ever chip they use may only support DV one way. It would need a codec to convert MPEG to DV, and if it hasn't got this in hardware/firmware then you are out of luck.

    Your other method would be to purchase a DVD-RAM/R combo to allow you to edit on the computer and then make a DVD-R.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  11. Trailblazer XP

    Trailblazer XP
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi PhilipL,

    Some excellent suggestions there, but do you know what software can edit the MPEG2 stream on the PC?

    For that matter, can you simply rename the extension off the DVD-RAM to .vob, then it would be treated as a standard MPEG2 stream?

    Isn't this all fun!!
     
  12. lbeck

    lbeck
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2002
    Messages:
    33
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
  13. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    Some excellent suggestions there, but do you know what software can edit the MPEG2 stream on the PC?

    For that matter, can you simply rename the extension off the DVD-RAM to .vob, then it would be treated as a standard MPEG2 stream?


    Renaming the .vro to .vob may work, worth a try. I am not sure how the files differ if they do, all I know is the basic MPEG encoding is no different to normal DVDs. It is possible due to DVD-RAM and DVD-RW (both use exactly the same recording format) needing random access and to follow a data stream about the disc, that the .vro files contain additional addressing information, so a simple renaming may not work, or may confuse software expecting a certain format of a VOB file.

    One suggestion is to email the authors of ripping software and ask them to include support, I will do that myself, as more and more people will be looking towards doing similar things in the future.

    I am still in process of deciding what route to go regards DVD writer in the computer so have not really tried playing about too much at the moment with these files.

    You can edit MPEG streams using a program called TMPGenc it is free and also will allow you to re-encode, say you want to reduce the size of the MPEG file. Editing is just simple cut and splice, goto http://www.tmpgenc.net/.

    Other authoring packages for DVD, normally arrive with the DVD writer can also have simple editing options as well creating your own menus and chapters. It is all a matter of getting the .vro of the disc.

    It is good fun that is for sure.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  14. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    6,064
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +374
    @ PhilipL

    Fingers crossed that there is some way of enabling the Digital Out.

    I enabled my Cam myself, but you are right this one maybe a firmware update. I have seen some US models of the DMR-20 though that claim to have it enabled as IN/OUT.

    I think on this machine they were worried about copyright infringement right from the start as the only form of digital output they have on it is the optical.

    I agree with you it's not ideal to edit on the machine and it's better done on the PC, but there are times when you just need to do a "quick and dirty" job for which the DMR is fine, well for me at least.

    I have not yet tried to fire in anything from a PC into the DV In on it yet, was told it maybe temperamental with a PC as a source. I will hook up my laptop Vaio and give it a try later on and let you know how I get on.

    Incidentally on your 7000, did you get full 5.1 through the DV out ?
     
  15. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    Incidentally on your 7000, did you get full 5.1 through the DV out ?

    No this can't happen as DV camcorders can not work with Dolby Digital 2 channel or 5.1. Any audio out via Firewire is mixed down to a 48KHz 16 bit PCM (uncompressed) output.

    I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it is easy to enable Firewire out on the Panasonic, as most chip solutions are two way, so quite possible the functionality is there.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  16. encaser

    encaser
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,566
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Suffolk/Essex
    Ratings:
    +112
    lbeck, it's model SD-M1612B at £52.87
    Check it's pull up spec page and it states DVD-RAM access times and in list of playables.;)
     

Share This Page

Loading...