DVD-RAM for quality and transfer of TV footage to PC ?

[Merlin]

I am on the verge of plumping for the Panasonic E95, but now hear of the Panasonic DMR-E50hs multiformat machine shown at CES2005, (I see some threads with peeps owning E50s....confused ?? )

Post says "I was going to buy an E85 tomorrow but now that I've seen the spec of the upcoming DMR-E50HS -- 160GB HDD, DVD-RW and +R recording "

Panasonic website doesnt state the media, Rasczak over at DVD recorder section says "it is due here in late April."

I talked to Panasonic but they say no idea until they see whats on their stand in march at the trade show.

The E95 writes DVD-R and DVD-RAM. I dont know if the latter plays on my PC. I have TEAC DVD reader and Plextor PX 708A, both top notch kit. DVD-R needs finalising for playing on other DVD players and footage becomes MPEG2 which I know from my early days venture into editing in premiere is not good for converting to avi. I wonder if VR mode on the DVD-RAM is the best way then and does it retain the original broadcast quality when being transfered onto PC via Premiere, in the same way as capturing miniDV as avi is lossless ? I am used to capturing from MiniDV via firewire but can one capture from a DVD reader and this disc in this way or does Premiere expect it to come down a firewire lead ?!

Furthermore having been told I can save/store avi to DVD for storage non playing function only, does that include DVD-RAM, dumb question perhaps but wish to confirm as if so, and if my Plextor will write to DVD-RAM, that allows 8Gb of storage rather than 4,7Gb or 16Gb if double layered/sided (someone please ?) DVD-RAMs are used., and compatible with my writer.

Hey, ......could I write a 16Gb or 8Gb video to DVD-RAM and play it on my E95 or E50 ?

If its 8Mb/16Mb why isnt it the commonest and widespread media ?

Merlin

 

[Roy Mallard]

Really have to advise that that it's not in your best interests to buy a DVD camcorder.

Some friends of ours might not like it.

Wouldn't want to see your shiny new camcorder, say, go on fire, in an urm, accident.

Word on the street is you'll get less grief with a minidv camcorder.

Be lucky.


(Seriously though, do a forum check for my previous ramblings on the matter, they are bad news)

 

[klr10]

Here is the bottom line...... it physically takes too long for the laser to melt the plastic on a DVD-R for the recording to be made without some form of data compression. DVD recorder cameras cannot do the job at full bandwidth unless they have a hard drive buffer....... Hope this makes sense...

 

[MarkE19]

All the DVD formats will AFAIK compress the video when recording. It is simply a matter of needing compression to fit any real length onto the disk. A standard 4.7Gb DVD will only record approx 18 minutes of AVI. Even DVD-RAM must compress the files and therefore there will be a loss of PQ. And as it is compressed it will still cause problems with editing/conversion.
You would not use Premiere etc to 'capture' the files from a DVD (any format), but rather another program to 'rip' the files to the HDD and then import them into the editing package.
AFAIK you can only get 8Gb on a RAM disk by turning it over as the 8Gb is for both sides of the disk. I was not aware that RAM was avilable as duel layer, but then again I never use RAM so why would I?
I would say RAM is not the most common format because you still have the disadvantage of needing to remove and turn over the disk to get the full 8Gb, and then there is the high cost of the disks. A DVD-/+RW will be a lot cheaper to buy.

Mark.

 

[Merlin]

Roy, KLR10,.... the E50 is a DVD/HDD large silver box not a camcorder !
Please re-reply on that basis...cheers

.....Even DVD-RAM must compress the files and therefore there will be a loss of PQ.

Blast... I understood the DVD-RAM acted as a removable HDD, files are written to HDD or RAM ...this is not so then ? On a HDD in VR format they are ok to get onto PC, but when they get onto DVD-RAM they alter quality...is this so ?
If so....

And as it is compressed it will still cause problems with editing/conversion.

...sod !

You would not use Premiere etc to 'capture' the files from a DVD (any format), but rather another program to 'rip' the files to the HDD and then import them into the editing package.

...

How can I get TV broadcasts onto my PC for editing bits out of documentaries for easier viewing when a certain subject matter is required,,,armed with a DVDR/HDD...whats the best way ?
Wish to extract all meaty aircraft footage into subject categories e.g. Blenheim footage, Wellington, Lancaster etc and assemble it on different DVDs for viewing all one subject in one go rather than spend days whizzing to and fro through vhs cassettes and now also dvd recordings of documentaries.

AFAIK you can only get 8Gb on a RAM disk by turning it over as the 8Gb is for both sides of the disk. I was not aware that RAM was avilable as duel layer, but then again I never use RAM so why would I?

Shop assistant told me this so it needs verifying !

I would say RAM is not the most common format because you still have the disadvantage of needing to remove and turn over the disk to get the full 8Gb, and then there is the high cost of the disks. A DVD-/+RW will be a lot cheaper to buy.

Now thats a good reason to gamble on the new Panny E50HS DVD/HDD appearing soon !...as its supposedly DVD-RW so someone thinks.

Merlin

 

[klr10]

sorry Merlin, but I think you should move this to the DVD recorders section. You'll find more help there....

 

[MarkE19]

Blast... I understood the DVD-RAM acted as a removable HDD, files are written to HDD or RAM ...this is not so then ? On a HDD in VR format they are ok to get onto PC, but when they get onto DVD-RAM they alter quality...is this so ?
If so.......sod !

Yes, RAM does act as a HDD in effect, at least on a PC. But to get video footage on it it will be compressed, otherwise as I said above you will only get around 18 minutes on it. RAM is roughly the same capacity as a DVD-RW etc, except they are often double sided giving double the capacity.

How can I get TV broadcasts onto my PC for editing bits out of documentaries for easier viewing when a certain subject matter is required,,,armed with a DVDR/HDD...whats the best way ?
Wish to extract all meaty aircraft footage into subject categories e.g. Blenheim footage, Wellington, Lancaster etc and assemble it on different DVDs for viewing all one subject in one go rather than spend days whizzing to and fro through vhs cassettes and now also dvd recordings of documentaries.

RAM can still do all that you require. It is just no as simple as I think you first thought. Editing the compressed footage can be done by many editing programs with not too much loss of quality.

Shop assistant told me this so it needs verifying !

It must be true then

Mark.

 

[Merlin]

sorry Merlin, but I think you should move this to the DVD recorders section. You'll find more help there....

Trouble is they sent me over here, I guess this topic falls between two camps, I see it tipped towards PC editing of TV footage, how best to get footage to PC and editing quality on the PC, too much PC in there for it to be DVD/HDD recorder thread as I see it.

Thanks Mark E19

RAM can still do all that you require. It is just no as simple as I think you first thought. Editing the compressed footage can be done by many editing programs with not too much loss of quality.

Would I be better off doing as I first planned, that of transferring VHS footage via MiniDV camcorder AVin socket, and using firewire out to PC, camcorder doing the analog to digital conversion, for documentaries I wish to extract footage from ? Trouble is any new docs I records would be on HDD. But would the method just mentioned give me better results than HDD to RAM to HD on PC ? Perhaps I need a DVD/HDD with a usb slot for a USB 100Gb gubbins !...just a thought/idea !
Merlin

 

[MarkE19]

Any footage that is already recorded onto VHS would be best captured via the camcorder to PC IMO.
Any new recordings done onto a DVD/HDD recorder could go via a DVD-RAM/RW or via the camcorder. Try both methods and see which you find easiest/gives best results.
Another option would be to get a DVD recorder with a DV port. I've not used one of these, so not sure if the DV port is output as well as input. If it is then you will get the best quality by copying off the HDD of the recorder via the cam to PC

Mark.

 

[Merlin]

MarkE19,
Thanks for the gen, very helpful and most grateful to you, so much to understand when getting into all this !
I see the Panasoniv E95 doesnt have DVout/in, it was my choice until I slapped eyes on the forthcoming E50, I see a shot now perhaps based on fact or not I dont know at http://www.avland.co.uk/panasonic/dmreh50/dmreh50.htm
of the sockets but ni DVin/out either.
Pioner 720 I see had DVin/out but for some reason I discounted that model during my initial whittling down to decide upon the E95. Must find out why this was.
Merlin