DVD-R + HDD Combos

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by adwhitworth, May 2, 2004.

  1. adwhitworth

    adwhitworth
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    Sorry for creating another thread about these but I've been looking at all of them and haven't really found much about them. Anyway, we are bascially looking at the Pioneer, The Panny E85, Toshiba or the JVC.

    It must come in Multiregion and really it needs to maintain the quality of Sky+ since our box will be connected to this. It will be connected to the Amp (Denon AVC11SR) by S-Video and to the TV by scart as well. The Sky+ box will be connected by Scart to the Recorder.

    So which is going to be the best out of the above list.

    Thanks for help in advance again :) :clap: :thumbsup:
     
  2. phelings

    phelings
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    Only the Panny has an RGB input,but as you have Sky+ you can use s-video.
    I would avoid the RAM format.Go for -RW.It offers RAM's editing and Timeslip along with compatibility.Apart from that,they all should do the job with a few operational differences that are purely personal preference.The best feature on the Pioneer(I don't think any of the others offer it) is the 'disc backup'.You can take any home recorded disc and do an identical digital copy like a PC rewriter does,only the Pioneer does the whole job in 25 minutes.
    Picture quality and sound quality should be the same on all models.
     
  3. steve36

    steve36
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    Why avoid RAM therefore Panasonic ?
    On the rare occasion that I wish to swap disks with someone else I use DVD-R.
    IMO RAM's editing is more flexible than -RW, but I could be wrong I only own RAM.

    I've had no problems whatsoever with my Panasonic, and it does have the advantage of taking RGB in and outputting component progressive. Also the high-speed copying is very useful on the panasonic DMRE85.

    I just wish they'd hurry up and release one with a digital-TV tuner.

    Steve.
     
  4. adwhitworth

    adwhitworth
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    Looks like it will be the Panasonic since it's also nice and easy to get in Multiregion. Plus we can connect the Sky+ by S-Video and either connect it to the Amp by component or S-Video.

    Shame about it not supporting -RW's but I guess if it supports RAM then it will be ok. I'll wait for a few more replies though.

    Thanks to everyone so far.:clap: :thumbsup: :cool:
     
  5. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    DVD-RW supports exactly the same DVD-VR format as DVD-RAM, so much so it is possible to put a DVD-RW recorded in the VR mode and have it play on a Panasonic DVD Recorder that shows it as a read-only DVD-RAM! It will not write to the disc as Panasonic have disabled DVD-RW on their recorders, as they prefer to support and promote DVD-RAM.

    So the editing possibilities are no different between DVD-RW and DVD-RAM, however with DVD-RW you have a 70% or more chance of it working in any PC, and if recorded in Video mode (you lose the editing but if you have a Hard-drive recorder this doesn't matter as you edit on the HD first) it will work in 70% or more of DVD Players (almost 95% plus on players made in the last 12-18 months), without having to waste a DVD-R.

    DVD-RW supports chase-playback (aka TimeSlip) the same as DVD-RAM, with the media being cheaper to buy. The only difference is DVD-RAMs rated life is 100,000 re-writes, with DVD-RW from 1000 to 10,000 depending on media quality and hardware. So if you want to still be using the media in 200 plus years time, go with DVD-RAM, just buy only the one disc and thrash it constantly to get your monies worth, oh the laser in the recorder will give up way before the DVD-RAM disc :) If want better value for money and greater compatibility, go with DVD-RW.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  6. steve36

    steve36
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    I agree with your points, especially regarding compatibility.
    As I don't have a HD machine I like the fact that I can edit the disk contents in-situ.
    I usually pay £3 for a RAM disk, so that's not too bad, and I'm using DVD-R's costing 50p with no problems, so I can afford to waste them.

    I also like the fact that the Panasonic machines accept RGB and output progressive via component. They are also very easy to use, I have suggested them to several people without any problems.

    All that said, I may defect to the first machine to include a digital tuner. (as long as it is'nt a Philips !).

    Steve
     
  7. phelings

    phelings
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    I said avoid RAM for exactly those reasons.Unless you need thousands of rewrites,-RW does the job,and allows playback on other players if you want to,whereas RAM does not.Timeslip is no longer exclusive to RAM(-RW in VR mode does it).As you are planning to use s-video anyway,you will not gain anything by getting Panasonic.You won't have to waste -R's.You can use -RW(Video mode) then reuse them
     
  8. adwhitworth

    adwhitworth
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    Which one out of the Tosh, JVC or Pionner do you suggest providing it can be brought in Multiregion.:thumbsup:
     
  9. steve36

    steve36
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    phelings,
    Why did you choose the Pioneer over the Panasonic ?
    I ask as I am currently considering the Panasonic E85 HD as it is easy to use and I do not generally swap disks with anyone.

    Also do you know if they will be launching one with component out/ progressive scan for use with a plasma ?

    Steve.
     
  10. phelings

    phelings
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    I did not choose Pioneer first.I bought an HS2,then a few months later went for the 5100.You can discount the HS2 now as its old and replaced with the E85.
    I wanted to move up to a high speed recorder,and there were 2 things about the Pioneer(and one negative)that made my choice.It all depends if your exact needs are the same as mine.Firstly,-RW over RAM.If you NEVER plan to share discs,or ever try to play them in another player,upstairs maybe,then that won't be a problem.All of RAM's functions-the hitec editing,Timeslip etc are all catered for by -RW(VR).-RW(Video) offers the chance to use rewritable discs to play elsewhere then reuse.RAM does not.The second plus was a feature not mentioned on any other recorder,so presumably not included.Disc backup' is a PCrewriter type function that allows a totally digital duplication of any home recorded disc .It takes just 25 minutes forthe whole process.Its faster than any PC rewriting I have done.Again,a useful function IF you need it.
    One more thing that has been brought to my attention,and I would love some replies from E85 owners about it.The Pioneer 5100 has 32 levels of recording on the HDD.In roughly 10 minute gaps,quality levels allow exact time settings for a HDD recoding to be made such that maximum quality is used and high speed recording is enabled.An E85 user reports that Panny has just the usual XP,SP,LP,EP,FR settings.Is this correct?If it is-thats a real negative point.FR is not enabled for high speed,so if you record something for 2.5 hours,you can only transfer at high speed if its recorded in LP(4hours).A waste of 90 minutes capacity,and crap quality to boot.Can any E85 owners confirm this.
    I would go for the Pioneer over any of the others for those reasons,and it records NTSC and PAL 60,while PAL 60 is not possible on the others.
    The negative Pioneer point is no RGB input-but if you have Sky+ you can use s-video
     
  11. jesmat2003

    jesmat2003
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    You've been misinformed phelings. The E85 enables you to record in "Flexible Recording" (FR) mode to the hard drive. If you set the timer to record a programme lasting more than one hour in FR mode, the recording will be the maximum size to just fit on to a blank DVD. The actual size of the recordings is approx 4110GB. So if you set the timer for 1 hour 55 mins, then the recording will be 4110GB. If you set the timer for 2 hours 30 mins, then the recording will still be 4110GB (at a lower bitrate, obviously). And the E85 does allow you to transfer these FR recordings to DVD-Rs using high speed dubbing.

    You say your Pioneer has 32 quality levels. As the Panny timer can be adjusted to the nearest minute, in effect it has hundreds of different quality settings. It works just as well if you want to transfer a VHS recording to the hard drive prior to dubbing it on to a DVD-R. If you had a film on VHS lasting 75 minutes, simply set the timer to record off the AV input starting in a few minutes time and finishing after 75 mins. Wait for the recording to start and then press play on your video.

    Once recorded in FR mode, you can then make minor edits to the top and tail of recordings to tidy them up, adjust the thumbnails, titles and chapter points before high speed dubbing to a DVD-R. It's all very easy. The only downside in recording in FR mode is that the picture is saved at it's 4:3 ratio.

    I've yet to test the following, but it sounds fine in theory:

    Say you wanted to record three half hour programmes and later dub them on to a DVD-R. What you would need to do when recording each of the programmes to the hard drive is to set the correct start times but set the lengths of the recordings for the total length you'll eventually be dubbing to a DVD-R. So if one of the programmes starts at 9pm, set the timer to start at 9pm and finish at 10.30pm. You can either stop the recording at 9.30pm when the programme finishes or erase the last hour once it's finished. The important thing is that the 30 min programme you'll left with is exactly one third capacity of a DVD-R. Do the same with the other two half hour programmes and the three of them will exactly fit on a DVD-R at full capacity. It's a bit fiddly, but it sounds like it'll work.

    Recording in PAL60 would only be of any use to people who want to dub NTSC video tapes on to DVD. For the majority of people the ability to record in PAL60 is no use whatsoever.
     
  12. adwhitworth

    adwhitworth
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    Anyone tried the JVC out?
     
  13. nunew33

    nunew33
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    assuming you are on abou DRMH20 and 30, they arent out yet
     
  14. adwhitworth

    adwhitworth
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  15. rwgdegraaf

    rwgdegraaf
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    My supplier in Holland told me that the player will be available in June. JVC would become available in May so it has been reschuled for a month I don't know the reason.

    I am very interested in this one.
     
  16. phelings

    phelings
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    PAL 60 may be no use whatsoever to you,but its a function that the Panny does not have,along with 'Disc backup' etc.Its already been useful for transferring an NTSC tape into PAL for someone by copying the NTSC tape in PAL 60 to the Pioneer on a Video mode -RW,then playing the -RW (finalised) in a cheapie player that converts NTSC-PAL,and into a PAL vhs recorder.Useful,but as you say,not for everybody.
    I did think it was unlikely for Panny to make the mistake on high speed HDD-DVD.Although it does sound a bit more fiddly,but then partial erase is more fiddly on the Pioneer.
    Looking around the forums,however,it seems that using FR on a Panny machine very often leaves big chunks of space blank on a dvd.I think all machines leave a bit of leeway.The Pioneer does,although its possible to override it,but you take a calculated risk that the 5 minutes or so of extra video does not take up too much space.
     
  17. rwgdegraaf

    rwgdegraaf
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    I asked Pioneer a question about their new models. They told me that later this year several new recorders would be released but there were no specifications known allready.

    One thing was for sure, the DVR-5100H-S will be followed up by the end of july with the DVR-520H-S. Does anyone knows what specificiations this model will have? Is it worth to wait for?

    Rene
     
  18. phelings

    phelings
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    Well,all they need to do is add an RGB input to make an unbeatable product
     

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