DVD+R DL Article

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Rasczak, Aug 25, 2004.

  1. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    For those interested their is quite a good edittorial discussing the Dual Layer DVDR state-of-play:
    http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/DVDInsider-DVDR9.php

    Personally I have to say I have been reasonably impressed with DVD+R DL. I have burnt 12 DVD+RW DL successfully now all of which play on most the standalone DVD players I've tried (they actually seem more compatible than DVD+R) although I have also had 5 coasters. It will be interesting to see how DVD-R DL compares when it launches end of this year/early next.
     
  2. HMHB

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    Interesting.
    I notice that the latest Pioneer DVR-A08XLA does 4x burning on Dual Layer media, I assume the other will follow suit soon.
     
  3. jdarushall

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    Any idea of the chance of the current LG +DL burner being able to be upgraded to -DL (>none???)
     
  4. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    No chance I'm afraid. You will be invited to buy a new drive.
     
  5. KDH

    KDH
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    Rasczak-did you use bitsetting for your DVD+R DL?
    The article does not mention bitsetting-does DVD-R DL have a chance if it does not allow bitsetting?
     
  6. Rob20

    Rob20
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    How much will these dual layer recordable -/+r disks cost. If they're gona cost £5, or significantly more than the current 30p or less for single sided disks then what's the point? especially as you'll need to buy a new dvd recorder as well.
     
  7. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    Yes - I am using the LG4120 with the 'unofficial' NOAD firmware that adds it - hence the reason the disks will play in most DVD players.

    It may not be applicable is the 'dit' I have heard. DVD-R DL is being designed from the ground up with DVD player compatibility foremost in mind. We'll obviously have to wait and see though.

    They are not cheap and (for the time being) they are not going to get much cheaper as most of the Chinese brands that pump out rock bottom price media are unable to produce them. Hence for the most part I think we will all current continue to use single layer disks. From my perspective the situations where I have used dual layer DVDR is when I have a three hour film and when I am archiving a series to DVDR and would have an 'odd' episode on a DVD-R alone.
     
  8. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    The article doesn't mention bit setting for +R either, so you are reading into the article something that isn't implied in anyway whatsoever. Can't think why?

    Regards

    Philip
     
  9. KDH

    KDH
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    Ah but we know that DVD+R DL bitsetting exists and works-Can't think why this should be an issue that should upset you ?
     
  10. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    Yes we do, and so do the DVD Forum. What is to stop them adopting DVD-ROM bit-setting for DVD-R Dual Layer? They are creating a new format from the ground up, there are no constraints on what they can or cannot do.

    If DVD-R Dual-Layer turns out not to use a DVD-ROM flag (which is your hope due to you being a fan of Philips), and so will have poorer compatibility we just stick with +R, but see the prices for +R media remain artificially higher due to that advantage. The only benefit we have with this mess of competing formats is the war for market share that helps reduce prices quicker than they otherwise might fall. Your hoping DVD-R DL isn't as compatible as +R DL is wishing for higher prices on your favourite media.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  11. phelings

    phelings
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    Dual layer discs cost around 10 times as much as a single layer disc.Drastic price cuts needed other wise they may quickly fade away before most people can use them
     
  12. Rasczak

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    Yes absolutely. Burning £7 coasters may make Verbatim happy but is very annoying.
     
  13. philipb

    philipb
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    Only burned two so far, but Verbatim DLs burned at x4 on the Pio 108 both played perfectly on Momitsu 880, Panasonic HS2, and to my complete surprise - Denon 2900. The 2900 is famously picky about which discs it will play, and I had read that the new DL +RW discs would not play on it. Also played on a Tosh DVD ROM using Theatertek.

    DVDs authored and burned using TMPGenc DVD Author. At x4 it took just over 20 minutes to burn a 6.8 Gb movie.

    I had previously burned this movie (Geronimo) on a single layer disc, and the PQ on the DL is noticeably better. The higher bitrate completely removes any MPEG artefacting in rapid motion scenes, and generally PQ is better. The bitrate equals XP recording on the Panasonic HS2, and the transfer from the HS2 to the DL DVDs maintains quality completely. Geronimo is 110 minutes, so at this bitrate you could just about get a 2 hour movie, maybe a bit more, onto one disc.
     
  14. KDH

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  15. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    That was line 5, now read line 6:

    The design of DVD-R DL has been fairly concrete for several months now but has, by necessity, been working it's way through the approval process. First DVD-R DL burners will be early next year.

    Personnally I have been quite impressed with Dual Layer DVD+R given it's good compatibility. But choice is normally a good thing and DVD-R DL should bring costs (of both types) down as well as give a dual layer burning option on minus recorders which remain (by far) the best set-top options.
     
  16. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    Wrong, being a fanboy to +R has clouded your vision :laugh:, try reading a bit further down:

    The following subjects approved:
    "Specifications for Dual Layer DVD-R Version 2.9"

    Regards

    Philip
     
  17. KDH

    KDH
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    Ah! How exciting
    Never mind Phil
    -Rasczak beat you to it!
     
  18. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    Also worth noting that DVD-RW is now at 6 speed, as well as 16 speed writing now officially verified by the DVD Forum.

    No announcements yet on +RW speed increases, but expect they will follow shortly.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  19. KDH

    KDH
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  20. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    Why did I say, "but expect they will follow shortly". You seriously telling me you didn't know about the latest +RW speed increase, you are slipping mate.

    Your quote, sounds like your game to me. :)

    Regards

    Philip
     
  21. KDH

    KDH
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    Not at all - just waiting for the first DVD drive to be "officially" announced with 8x DVD+RW.

    I know you hate unofficial announcements

    Funny- I could have sworn you've been playing this game for years

    Can I start calling you "Grandmaster Dash"?
     
  22. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    You will also know then that 8 speed +RW is not yet finalised by the RW Alliance and so will not be supported on the new Plextor out the box, you will have to wait for a firmware upgrade, how long, who knows! The Plextor will also support DVD-R dual-layer with a firmware upgrade, likely in December. Your usual sources of information will be posting the news soon I am sure ;)

    Plextor have also take some telling off from Philips/RW Alliance marketing department as they like to make these announcements first, and not just let speed increases slip out with little fanfare in a product specification :oops:

    Regards

    Philip
     
  23. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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  24. KDH

    KDH
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    How come your sourses of info are better than those of the DVD news sites and the 8x DVD+RW info is not mentioned on any other forums(unless I've missed something -link please?)-intrigues me what your sources are--I suspect what you're saying is true however!......................you've always denied being directly employed in the industry ??

    PS the best product announcement ever made was that by Pioneer for DVD-R DL in October 2003 ( a day after the DVD+R DL announced and fully 15 months before any hardware will have appeared)
     
  25. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    I am not linked with the industry at all, but after several years of posting in various forums you do pick up a few contacts and enemies :)

    Really KDH, those that live in glass houses..... the best product announcement was surely by the RW Alliance/HP/Philips when they promoted 1st generation PC hardware as being upgradeable to +R in a panic to encourage sales, which of course turned out to be big fat lie :)

    Anyway in an attempt to stay on topic, dual-layer writing (a.k.a. double layer for + media) will start to take off Christmas this year and into Q1 2005. Once hardware hits the shelves that write to both DVD-R DL and +R DL, people will start buying the hardware in order to upgrade and media prices will become more reasonable due to competition and ramped up production.

    Nobody wants to be stuck with a single format writer like the old days, which is why Plextor marketing are telling people their new kid on the block will write to both DL formats, all be it with a firmware upgrade. Other manufacturers will follow with similar announcements.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  26. PhilipL

    PhilipL
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    Hi

    Well they said it wouldn't happen and the + fanboys said it wouldn't happen, I wonder if this will get mentioned at http://www.dvdplusrw.org/cgi/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=3;t=10260 or will the + fans simply bury their heads :) Edit: KDH has made a post in correction of his incorrect assumption that +RW/+R higher speed media will always be backward compatible, 10 out 10 for that :clap:

    The RW Alliance has hit the exact same problem with +RW using higher speeds as Pioneer has done with DVD-RW. 8 speed RW media will not be compatible with x2.4 or x4 speed hardware, and so will be marked as High Speed, breaking recording compatibility. Now wasn't there an article from the RW Alliance at the time Pioneer announced their break in speeds, stating the RW Alliance had designed +RW to cater for this from the start and it wouldn't be necessary? What's new.

    Info at: http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/10746

    Regards

    Philip
     

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