1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

DVD-R Discs Query re suitability for Panny E50

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Arthur Dent, Jul 8, 2003.

  1. Arthur Dent

    Arthur Dent
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    As a new owner of a Panny DMR E50, I'm a little confused regarding the various read/write speeds of blank media. Is any quoted speed suitable for this DVD recorder or does it have to be a specific speed or speed range ? As far as I can tell, there's nothing in the Panasonic manual relating to read/write speeds in the specifications page. Thanks.
     
  2. aaronjon

    aaronjon
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    putting the speed issue aside, you want the discs that are most compatable with your E50.
    svp are doing the traxdata @ 99p (final day offer) which are g03 ritek 1/2x and are compatable with all previous models of pannys and more (although they dont list the E50).
    a quick e-mail should find out or other members may know.
    speed is more important to pc burning of dvd, even then compatability issuse are rampant.
     
  3. ferris57

    ferris57
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    869
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +2
    Yup :D
     
  4. Arthur Dent

    Arthur Dent
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks guys, had actually ordered those 99p specials afore I posted. That actually prompted me to ask, as ones I used up till now were Memorex 4X. Looks as tho it's all come good ;)
     
  5. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    6,123
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +393


    DO NOT buy 4x media for your Panasonic standalone !!! :nono: You will burnout your laser. Your drive was only designed for 1/2x write speed media. Any other type/quality of dye will cause excessive wear on your laser and most likely burn it out.

    Some sites do advertise 4x media being compatible with the Panasonics, however these are specific brands. Do not therefore assume automatically then that all 4x branded media will work fine.
     
  6. ferris57

    ferris57
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    869
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +2
    Well, I contacted panasonic about this directly about 6 months ago when x4 first appeared and the pioneer warnings were going about. I was told that there was absoulutely no problem at all with using any speed of media.
     
  7. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    6,123
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +393
    your machine, your money, your risk.

    Ask any honest decent media supplier and they will tell you ONLY use what they list as 100% compatible at 4x on the Panny's.

    4x media is not a natural successor to 1x or 2x as it is a different dye, designed to work obviously at higher speed with appropriate software. Most manufacturers continue to produce 4x and 1x separately as they have two different uses.

    If you knacker your recorder's laser. The first thing Panasonic will ask you is what media you were using. If it ain't Panny then they will not guarantee any other DVD-R was compatible for your machine. Add to that Panasonic Branded DVD-R is NOT 4x and neither was it ever designed to be.

    Panasonic Customer service will also tell you there is absolutely nothing wrong with the AE100 and that it is a 100% perfectly reliable machine.
     
  8. malcom

    malcom
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    526
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +4
    Ekko Star. Looking into this matter the info I have recieved is that it is only the Pioneer stand alone machines that were affected by 4x media and that has now been corrected with a firmware update. So i have been informed that the Panny stand alone machines are not affected by such media.

    If you believe I am wrong could you please give details of your source of information that leads you to believe that 4X media is a risk to stand alone machines. regards. malcom.
     
  9. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    6,123
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +393
    Not sure of where you source your discs from but why not ask them ? I've been to computer fairs where people have simply refused to sell me 4x for my standalone due to what it's done to their machines.

    The dye type on a 4x disc is different and the recorder has to write to it in a different way, hence the firmware upgrades. If your recorder is not optimised for that then it'll cause excessive wear on your laser.

    Yes Pioneers were affected, and from what I understand on those you could not put a 4x disc in and even record at 2x on it without doing possible major damage to your drive. A firmware update though has put that right.

    What firmware upgrade has your Panny ever had ? The original drives used in the Panny were designed only for 1x or 2x write at max.

    I'll let you figure the rest out.....

    Some of the top brands like Verbs 4x, Memorex 4x etc are meant to be ok for the Pannys, but these brands will be using top quality dyes, but don't be fooled into thinking all 4x media will be ok. As I say it's your machine, your choice and your risk.
     
  10. ferris57

    ferris57
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    869
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +2
    Did they specificaly have experience of cheap x4 media destroying their panasonic dmr-e30, e50 or hs2? I doubt it. I would imagine that they had heard of or had experience of x4 media burning out a pioneer before it became common knowledge that an update was required. The problem is that most media suppliers are pc oriantated. Stand alones to them are almost an after thought. I would imagine that warnings given by them are often because they don't know and want to cover themselves in case.

    I have found there knowledge of issues relating to standalones patchy at best. Its a relatively small market to them. Just look at how few brands they reccomend for standalones. Take the yellows. Probably used by the majority of panny owners and even svp only reccomend them for pioneer drives.

    Like you said, my money my machine my risk. And because of that I'd take panasonics advice over a media retailers any day. After all, if panasonic are wrong I get a new machine and it costs me nothing-not that I think they are by the way.

    The reason pioneers had a problem with x4 media is that in order to burn a disk at x2 or x4 speed a dramatic increase in power is needed at every step up in speed. Pioneer did not put any limit on there x2 drives and so they would try to increase the power to burn a disk a x4 and it would never be strong enough to do it. This is what burnt out the laser.

    The update put a limit on the laser power and therefore stopped it burning out. Much like the red line in a car. Pannys don't have this problem, because they don't try to burn at x4.

    Also in terms of disk quality, x4 media HAS to be of a higher quality, in terms of the dye used, to allow faster burning. So even cheap x4 media is of a reasonably high standard comparitively.
     
  11. malcom

    malcom
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    526
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +4
    Ekko Star
    I have done just that! SVP say only Pioneer stand alone recorders were affected and even them with the firmware upgrade are now safe to use 4x discs.

    I have found SVP to be a reputable dealer thus far so I don't think for one moment they would knowingly sell media that will damage equipment. If you know of a supplier that knows what you say to be accurate then could you please give me the name of such so that i can make further enquiries and if need be challenge the info I have been given thus far. Regards. Malcom.

    P.S.

    This issue was raised some tme back and I seem to remember someone saying that the Panny machines software is written to suit any speed media and not just 1x and 2x. It's awhile back now so I can't find that source. Maybe someone else has read that also!!!
     
  12. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    6,123
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +393
    Yes they did....Anybody who makes a living out of this and deals with it day in day out tends to gather a little bit of knowledge about what they are dealing with. When a number of people re-iterate a point and genuinely refuse to sell you something, well it doesn't take a genius does it ????

    Sorry, not quite sure on this one????? Fully Synthetic oil is meant to be the best, Metal Oxide tapes are meant to be the best. Use them in the wrong applications and they won't do any good for your car or equipment. In other words quality only matters if you are using it appropriately.

    I've been told you stick in a 4x disc into an inappropriate firmware drive and you write to it at 2x only. Your drive will soon enough be knackered. That's technical enough for me thanks.

    Oh so you only use Panasonic DVD-R only then ???? Not being funny but I can get access to Panasonic reps on most days and I'd take anything they say with more than a pinch of salt. And one things for sure, they certainly don't know everything about their products.
     
  13. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    6,123
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +393
    Malcolm,

    Appreciate your concerns but no media supplier will warrant that their media won't do any harm to your machine. I suppose if you challenge them they will then all point you to using Panasonic own branded DVD-R in that case.

    I'm only sharing my gathered experience and knowledge through continuously talking to people and living with my E20 on which I've clocked up over approx 1500hrs recording time. As I said before when a number of Comp fair suppliers simply refuse to sell you inappropriate media, due to the bad experiences that they and their customers have had, well it says a lot to me. If anyone can simply take your money and run, leaving you to get on with it, it's probably at a Comp fair.

    I have used SVP and they are good and no I don't believe they will knowingly sell you anything that will do harm. But with all due respect DVDR Recording is still very much in it's infancy and you are still the guinea pigs. So I would guess "knowingly" becomes rather a vague term.

    At the end of the day, it's all your choice, so if you are happy using whatever media you are using, it makes no difference to me whatsoever.
     
  14. ferris57

    ferris57
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    869
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +2
    Well, Im not surprised that a media seller has avised you to buy dvd-r costing £1.50-£2.00 rather than ones costing 70p. I stand by what I said regarding the majority of media sellers and their knowledge of stand alone dvd recorders. Yes they know their product but the are geared towards pc writters and so is the majority of their knowledge.

    Bad example. A better example would be cd-r. I have a x24 speed cdr drive. Now I use x32 media all the time. Better quality dye is needed to acheive these speeds. But my writter doesn't try to write at 32 (which would burn out the laser) because the firmware tells it not to. In the same way as the pannys firmware means it doesn't try to write at x4.

    You keep saying this as though panny say only to use panny dvd-r. They don't. Infact I got an email from them suggesting 3 or 4 brands. They do advise avoiding really cheap media, but this is because of the failure rate, not because it can damage the unit.

    Im sorry but I just don't agree with you, or more specifically I don't agree with what you have been told. If the panny is using x4 media it still only writes at x1. So the laser is still doing the same work. X4 media dye doesn't require the laser to do more work to burn, it just needs more power when writting at faster speeds, which the panny never trys to do.

    I agree with you here though, but I certainly don't think that your average media retailer is infallable either.

    By the way, big pockets have a note about his on their web site.


    Here is the list of what writters/recorders need a firmware update:

    http://www.dvdhs.com/euro/index.html

    as you can see, no mention of the panny.
     
  15. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    6,123
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +393
    The price of the media was the same or cheaper so no benefit to the media seller. And the ones that didn't have any stock pointed to another person who did, that's not the sign of anyone trying to rip or fob you off.

    CD-R is a far far more established format. I remember in the early days the quality of the discs used to be bad, real bad and very expensive. It has progressed now to the stage that they can improve on dyes without affecting the hardware that much but that's only because the generations of CD recorders has also kept upto pace. Not quite the same argument with standalone DVD recorders I'm afraid, far too early in their lifecycle to be assuming that one.

    And were they specifically 4x certified or was it brands that they suggested? No panasonic rep has definitively answered that one when I have asked face to face, in which case they have said stick to Panasonic which is certified at 1x only.

    Thanks for the list. But lists are made to be added as and when they know better. And as you've said before.....

    well aren't these the guys that actively contribute to compiling such lists ?

    Please don't take my comments in any offence, not meant that way at all, I just feel that people should be aware that they do take a risk that they maybe unaware of. I for one would be gutted for anyone who knackers there HS2 etc by this means.
     
  16. ferris57

    ferris57
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    869
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +2
    No No, not at all :).
    Its easy for a disscussion to seem like an argument when your writting comments down and not talking face to face, but I didn't take it that way. I think debate is good and obviously needed when there is so much conflicting advice around.

    I totally agree. I would feel even worse if it happened because I had said they are fine and it turned out they weren't.

    I wouldn't have used them myself had I not had it in writting from panasonic that I could. That way my back was covered should anything have happened and it came to needing a replacement.

    Infact, although as I have said I personally don't think there is a problem, I think it would be a good idea for people to shoot off an email to panny themselves just to give themselves the same security.

    This is the first time I have read anything at all suggesting x4 shouldn't be used with panny recorders and to be honest the fact that you have spoken to someone who knackered his drive through x4 media has got me thinking. But I'm always cagey about second hand info. Had it happened to you directly I would have no problem accepting it, but the fact that there are so many variables in dvd authoring still leaves me my doubts. Did it actually happen to him or had he just heard about it and said it happened to him. Was it deff a panny and not a pioneer. Could it have been an unlucky coincidance and not related to the media at all. Or could it have just bee a bad disk...or was it really because it was x4 media....there are so many possibilities. It's certainly food for thought though.
     
  17. malcom

    malcom
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    526
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +4

    I tend to be on the side of believing there is a mis-understanding going on here stemming from the Pioneer experience. However to be on the safe side it's [probably wise to stick with media less than 4x if possible.

    The trouble is they keep making these so called improvements targeted at computer users and suddenly you find a brand or disc type that did work happily in a stand alone machine doesn't any more.

    Even 2x verbatim in a jewel case has blotted it's copy book by proving to be incompatible with the Pioneer 444 player I have. Yet 12 months ago the verbatim in a jewel case were fine for all my equipment.

    ferris57. With regard to e-mailing Panasonic for an answer. I wouldn't put too much faith in that at all. Just before DVD recorders became available I e-mailed Panasonic to ask them when would they appear in the UK.

    The reply I had was that they had no plans for a DVD recorder in the foreseable future. Four weeks later they were in the stores. So I am afraid what Panny say's can be taken with a pinch of salt.
     
  18. ferris57

    ferris57
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    869
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +2
    Precisely why I suggest emailing them ;). By emailing them and getting their response about x4 media being fine, you cover yourself should anything ever happen. In other words they can't turn round and say "its not our fault, you weren't supposed to used x4 media in our recorders" because you have it in writting that you can.
     
  19. Arthur Dent

    Arthur Dent
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Done that and awaiting their reply with interest. On the issue of some Panasonic reps not knowing everything about their products. I would have thought that with this so called "format war" going on, Panasonic would give out "quality" information to keep ahead of the game as it were.
     
  20. ferris57

    ferris57
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    869
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +2
    You would think so wouldn't you :rolleyes:

    Then again you would also think panasonic would have a go at actually marketing there dvd recorders as well!
     
  21. Arthur Dent

    Arthur Dent
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Got a reply from Panasonic. Quote: In response, I would explain that the DMR E50 can use 4x discs. Depending on what you want it for, up to 4x is best. Unquote.

    So there we have it. Though not completely sure I understand their last sentence :confused:
     
  22. malcom

    malcom
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    526
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +4
    Ok. I have just posted a specific question to Panasonic asking them if 4x media can cause laser burn out on there range of machines. I have asked them to confirm one way or the other.

    If they state in writing that there machines are safe with 4x media then I will be satisfied. As you say if it is in writing that the laser will come to no harm, that put's users in the clear..

    Just hope they reply......:laugh:
     
  23. malcom

    malcom
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    526
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +4
    As of yet I have not had a reply from Panasonic with regard to the specific question I asked them. I used their webpage e-mail option....... Does anyone have a proper e-mail address for panasonic UK. so I can try again...........Malcom.
     
  24. ferris57

    ferris57
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    869
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +2
    The only email address i could find is the one buried in the code for their form, it's

    customer.care@panasonic.co.uk

    Doesn't go anywhere different but at least saves you filling out the form again!

    Any email addy written on the instruction manual anywhere?
     
  25. Arthur Dent

    Arthur Dent
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yep, customer.care etc etc is the one I got a quick reply from. :cool:
     
  26. malcom

    malcom
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    526
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +4
    Thank's ferris57 I have used the e-mail address you gave. Better luck this time I hope. I have asked them to make a positive clarification in relation to possible premature burn out when using 4x media.. Maybe the question is one step too far for them to risk a commited statement about it... We shall see......I hope my sceptical thoughts are proven wrong.......I have e-mailed them before about other matters via the web and had speedy replies......So this bothers me......
     
  27. ferris57

    ferris57
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    869
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +2
    Yeah, it may be the case that they are actually looking into this instead of giving a bog standard reply. Fingers crossed!
     
  28. malcom

    malcom
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    526
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +4
    OK. I have now recieved a reply from Panasonic. All is fine...

    Below is a copy of the question I asked and their reply.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    PROBLEM DESCRIPTION:
    EMAIL REQUEST: Subject - DVD recorder media worry! can you clarify......
    DETAILS: Hi. There is some debate and concern that DVD-R media that is
    rated as 4x can
    possibly cause premature laser burn out if such discs are used on the
    Panasonic stand alone DVD recorder range. i.e., E20/E30/E50 etc.

    Could you please confirm one way or the other that "Laser burn out" Can or

    cannot occur by using such rated discs. Regards.
    P.S. I have communicated this worry via your web page e-mail reply option
    but
    have had no response todate.......Regards..


    PROBLEM RESOLUTION:


    Thank you for your e-mail enquiry.

    In response, I would explain that the 4x disc do not cause laser burn out.

    This is not possible on these machines as they will only write at 1x, not
    depending on what the media is.

    The 4x means that a machine can write up to 4x speed, if it capable of it,
    which the DVD recorders are not. Therefore there is no way that they can
    cause premature laser burn out.

    I trust that the above information will be of assistance to you. However,
    of course, if you should have any further queries, please do not hesitate
    to contact us on 08705 357357 or customer.care@panasonic.co.uk and we will
    endeavour to assist.
     
  29. Arthur Dent

    Arthur Dent
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Splendid news Malcolm. Thanks for your efforts in all of this, (and thanks to Panasonic too I think). Regards
     

Share This Page

Loading...