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DVD Player Upgrade Bug...Infection

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by EmissarY, Apr 24, 2004.

  1. EmissarY

    EmissarY
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    I was wondering if anyone could advise me on a problem I have.

    I am currently running a Denon 2803, Mission FS2AV package and a Denon DVD 700 player.

    My TV is A Toshiba 28W8DB widescreen. As far as picture quality goes I have tried both RGB and S-Video. Strangely enough, to my eyes anyway (I wear glasses by the way :cool: ) the S-Video on this TV seems more.....whats the word....jubilant???

    The RGB is crisp and detailed, but the colours on S-Video seem more vibrant...noticeably so. For example, I have to turn up the colour of the TV when viewing in RGB to match the colour levels on S-Video. Is this a common trait on Toshiba models?

    I am thinking also of upgrading my dvd player. Now if I went for a Pioneer 565, would that be much of a significant upg over the Denon DVD700? Bear in mind that I do not currently listen to SACD or DVD-Audio, however I would like the option of doing so if the time came.

    Given the TV that I have, will going for something more expensive like a Denon 2200 or a Pioneer 757 or 668 yield much of an improvement? I assume that because I use a std widescreen TV still that a deinterlaced picture can only be so good and after a certain degree better images will only be realised with progressive abled devices.

    So will upding my dvd player be worth it?

    Thanx 4 any advice,

    EmissarY
     
  2. bonzobanana

    bonzobanana
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    S-video on Toshiba's being better than RGB isn't rare. Often Toshiba sets just downconvert RGB to s-video internally. Can you adjust the colour on the RGB input?

    What with it being a basic 50hz set (ok with a slighter better sound system than the norm) and only 28" with probably no genuine RGB input or component inputs either I would have thought your current budget Denon model was about right at least for visuals. I know this Denon is actually a low cost Hitachi player in a posh case and doesn't offer performance any better than most of the £50 dvd players out there, in fact the internal electronics are sourced from china on the cheap and the denon case is probably more expensive than whats inside it.

    It seems to me your current components are reasonable for audio but a bit low end for video generally. So if your not planning on changing your tv but want something to maximise use of your sound system perhaps something like the Limit DVD800SE. That offers an excellent sound system with superb cd replay but offers an average to good picture probably only a bit better than your current player. You probably won't notice a difference in picture quality on your set. Theres also a new Limit coming out which is also Cyrus tuned for excellent sound and has dvd audio and progressive scan. These Limit models are Zoran based I believe.
     
  3. EmissarY

    EmissarY
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    Than for your advice,

    I am going to look at the Limit player and also the Pioneer 565. I didnt realise that the Denon was such a poor make, considering I paid £170 for it!!! Boy do I feel done over.

    Anyhoo, I guess its time to see what else can be had that will be an improvement, and I'm going to do a more detailed check on the RGB vs S-Video to see whats better on my tv.

    Cheers again,

    EmissarY.
     
  4. bonzobanana

    bonzobanana
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    Denon is not a poor make but when a company that usually makes high end gear trys to compete at the bottom end of the market sacrifices have to made. I'm not criticising Denon in general as their mid to high end stuff is very good. The fact is what you have isn't a real Denon product. It wasn't designed by Denon (apart from the case) and doesn't use high end components (its made in china using cheap components) so its not a real Denon at all. Its just the same if you buy a Toshiba tv. The botom end stuff is made by Vestel in Turkey and the sets are no better than Goodmans and Bush, in fact you will find identical looking Bush/Goodmans sets to bottom end Toshibas. Toshiba only make their mid to high end sets themselves so only those models are truly representative of Toshiba design. However Toshiba know that they can make money selling lower quality bought in products at the bottom end of the market. They can't afford to make sets themselves that sell for that sort of money so its extra profits for them.

    You can get your Denon from superfi for £129.99.

    That includes conversion to multiregion, free postage and its from a company that is not known for being super competitive. There may even be cheaper suppliers out there;

    http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/1528

    here's a review of the Denon and look at the test data results for video and audio jitter. You don't get proper Denon's with those sort of results;

    http://www.whatvideotv.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=3703

    The Hitachi model its based on is (again look at the jitter values);

    http://www.whatvideotv.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=3700

    These high jitter values show inherent timing problems with the electronics. I'll admit its not really important on the audio side if your connecting it do a amp via a digital connection and not using the audio decoder but you will be using the video decoder and shows a limitation there. Don't get me wrong its not the end of the world these values are so high but it is an indcation of the grade of components used. The jitter values on a basic Pioneer would be about a tenth of these on its budget models.
     
  5. EmissarY

    EmissarY
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    So would you say a pioneer 565 is a much better player then?
     
  6. Ged

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    I have the 565 and have mixed feelings about it due to it's RGB problem, my Panasonic TV and a low analogue audio output for SACD/DVDA.
    Picture wise it is good and the layer change is swift.
    Of all the players I have used I feel the Panasonic S75 gave the best results for what it could do and I wish I had never sold it.
     
  7. bonzobanana

    bonzobanana
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    The Panasonic is a super dvd player I have to say but it excels more on picture than sound hence the reason I thought the Limit player would be better as it excels more on audio than video and therefore a better match for a fairly low end performance tv but pretty decent sound system. The RGB problem shouldn't effect his setup anyway. The Pioneer/Panasonic mismatch is I believe based on the Pioneer giving out too strong an RGB signal and the Panasonic being a bit sensitive to overly strong RGB signals. I don't think the Toshiba tv will be effected by this. However from memory I seem to recall one Pioneer having a poor s-video output that would be a worry with the Tosh tv.

    Looking at the review of the model here the Pioneer does seem excellent;

    http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=3624

    Personally if you want enhanced audio format support then I think SACD is more important than DVD Audio so its important to get that. The jitter ratings are excellent so its obviously been designed and built very well from a timing perspective. The s-video performance isn't the best out there but its not bad. I certainly give it the thumbs up. Seems a nice player. Bear in mind though that the Cyrus tuned Limit player will do a better job with audio CDs. There is also a Cambridge Audio DVD player with DVD Audio compatibility for about £250. That offers excellent audio cd quality and seems very highly rated.

    http://www.richersounds.co.uk/index.php?f=itemdetl.php&p=301978

    Basically you've got to work out what you will be doing most with your dvd player and prioritise important features that way.
     
  8. EmissarY

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    Assuming I purchase the Pioneer 565, how will I be affected due to the numerous reports of this low output from analogue.

    I am still unsure as to what people are going on about.

    I will use the pioneer 565 linked via optical out to my denon 2803.

    The denon 2803 will be connected to the mission fs2av speakers via the umbilical cord and the speakers themselves will go to the fs2 sub as per normal.

    If I then want to play sacd or dvd-a, what do I need to do to this setup in order to listen to such media?

    I was under the impression, that like DTS, sacd or dvd-a would be selected by choosing it in a menu of some sort.

    Can anyone clarify this and consequently my inept level of baboonery...
     
  9. Ged

    Ged
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    I thought you had purchased the 565 or am I misreading your previous posts?
     
  10. EmissarY

    EmissarY
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    Well I held off due to the various reports of the player and theproblems with sub output etc. Still stuck with the denon at present.

    I did order one the same day as I posted that other thread but then I cancelled.

    Sorry for any confusion.

    But i thought it best to wait.
     
  11. bonzobanana

    bonzobanana
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    You need to connect the Pioneer to your amp via 5.1 analogue connections for dvd audio and sacd I think. Hence if the line level output on the pioneer is a bit low you'll have to crank up the volume control a bit more than normal on your amp.
     
  12. Ivor_Monkey

    Ivor_Monkey
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    Can this be true?
    If I connect a Pioneer 737 dvd player via 5.1 analogue connections to my 2011 will it play sacd ?
     
  13. bonzobanana

    bonzobanana
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    The answer should be yes if your Pioneer 737 is a sacd compatible dvd player but obviously no if its not got sacd.
     

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