1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

DVD File structure help

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by figrin_dan, Jan 25, 2005.

  1. figrin_dan

    figrin_dan
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,993
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +135
    I was looking to buy the Sony RDRGX500 dvd recorder (same as 300 but with freeview), so took a DVD+RW to the shop to get some footage recorded onto it. 3 programs at 3 different quality settings.

    When I attempted playing the disc on my Pioneer 565 it would not start the disc at all (couldn't read the menu?).

    My PC played the disc fine but when I tried to edit it, dvdshrink wouldn't open it, Nero attempted the 1st program but gave up after about 1 minute - I burnt this attempt to disc and my Pioneer played it (but audio was out of sync).

    Here is the file structure:
    VIDEO_RM
    ---VIDEO_RM.DAT 1M
    ---VIDEO_RM.IFO 32K
    ---VIDEO_RM.BUP 32K

    VIDEO_TS
    ---VIDEO_TS.BUP 12K
    ---VTS_01_0.BUP 18K
    ---VTS_02_0.BUP 18K
    ---VIDEO_TS.IFO 12K
    ---VTS_01_0.IFO 18K
    ---VTS_02_0.IFO 18K
    ---VIDEO_TS.VOB 34K
    ---VTS_01_1.VOB 144M
    ---VTS_02_1.VOB 144M

    What I don't get is:
    A) The two VOBs appear to be identical
    B) There is nothing to show there are 3 tracks (chapters?)
    C) The DAT file is 43 secs of a music track I have never heard before (?)

    My questions now:
    1) Will a DVD-RW produce the same outcome?
    2) Could I change the structure manually to get it to play on my Pioneer?
    3) If I just record 1 program will the structure look just like a standard DVD-VIDEO, and thus play on my Pioneer?

    I'm hoping to record tv programs, edit out bits I don't want, then burn to a DVDR which will play on other players (Otherwise I'm stuck with Sony for the rest of my life!)

    Any help will be greatly appreciated.
    Cheers
     
  2. cdb

    cdb
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    454
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +43
    Can't realy help you, but I've just tried saving some stuff to drd-ram with my panasonic E95 and it won't play on my pc at all. The stuff I saved on dvd-r woiuldn't either until it was finalised. Even then power dvd won't play it, but media player will after a delay.
     
  3. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,203
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,261
    Ensure you have compatible hardware - see this Guide for details on that.
     
  4. figrin_dan

    figrin_dan
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,993
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +135
    Hmmm. Do I need to finalise the DVD+RW?

    If this sounds like a stupid question, I'm wondering if this would change the filnames/structure.
     
  5. TBH1

    TBH1
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2004
    Messages:
    25
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Ratings:
    +0
    I think you do need to finalise - - though none finalised discs will play on the drive they wer created on.
     
  6. musukebba

    musukebba
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    689
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +16
    You don't need to finalise a +RW. However these discs are less widely compatible than +R or -R and this may explain why your Pioneer 565 won't play it.

    All three titles will be contained within the VOB files, but the delineating pointers to access each one are in the IFO file.

    Go back to the original +RW, use DVD Decrypter in IFO mode to reveal the three VTS titles, and then with 'File splitting' set to 'None' in the settings, rip each title to PC HDD and rename the filename extension from '.vob' to '.mpg'.

    This should allow import into a suitable editing program for cutting out start/end material, adverts etc.

    Then you'll need an authoring program to burn to -R.
     
  7. figrin_dan

    figrin_dan
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,993
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +135
    Thanks for that, will do that tonight. . .
    Have checked the sony manual; it says dvd+rw are automatically finalised. I've played plenty of these dvd+rws on the Pioneer previously so I'm still a bit puzzled.
     
  8. musukebba

    musukebba
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    689
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +16
    Sony-speak for "They don't need finalising".
    I have used +RWs recorded on a GX3, and successfully added more titles on a Philips recorder. However the menu needs to be changed, so they're not completely compatible straight out of the tray and a player may just spit them out. Goodness knows what Sony's bare implementation of the <plus> format has resulted in.

    You should have better success with the PC drive rip/edit/reauthor method.
     
  9. pjclark1

    pjclark1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,411
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Thailand
    Ratings:
    +271
    I do this all the time standalone dvd+rw to PC to DVD-r

    copy files to HD using dvd decryptor
    use dvd author from www.pegasys-inc.com (free for 30 days)
    to open dvd on HD, (choose either, they are both the same)
    edit, add menus, etc, the finished dvd will be in standard form.
     
  10. figrin_dan

    figrin_dan
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,993
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +135
    Tried this. Worked ok til the last bit. I have Pinnacle Studio 9 SE which I quite like using but it didn't like the .mpg (couldn't play or edit). I used Nero to export the .vob as a .mpg but this introduced the audio sync problem ~1 sec lag.
     
  11. figrin_dan

    figrin_dan
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,993
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +135
    . . . so I tried this and it worked fine !

    But looking at the quality of the final result, I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth all the effort. May go for the fusion FVRT100 at half the price and use s-video to capture at a similar quality.

    Cheers for all the help
     
  12. musukebba

    musukebba
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    689
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +16
    But you didn't say what the quality of the original recordings by the Sony boys were? You need to know that before you comment on the end result as above. For all we know DVD Author may have re-encoded the video, producing a poorer result.

    Try Womble MPEG2VCR (also 1 month for free) which will take the renamed .vob -> .mpg straight in. There will be no re-encoding in subsequent authoring to reduce quality, since the video should be DVD-compliant.

    If you are thinking of taking an S-Video feed from a PVR to record to DVD then good luck. As I said before, unless you take the trouble to describe exactly what you're doing and what you want, then no-one is going to have the patience to help you get the best result.
     
  13. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    1) No, DVD-RW uses a different recording method that is 100% compatible with the DVD Video format. +RW uses a hacked version by Philips, the file system is non-standard and so are the VOBs (navigation is incorrect in the VOB streams), these hacks were required to allow some simple editing and avoid a separate finalise step.

    2) Probably, but difficult, better to use DVD-RW.

    3) +RW discs will never look like DVD Video discs as they have much more going on. Why not just try a DVD-RW disc?

    Regards

    Philip
     
  14. musukebba

    musukebba
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    689
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +16
    Your statement is not true for -VR mode. You should have said that -RW discs need to be formatted in Video mode to attain this alleged 100% compatibility.

    But the recording is already in +VR format. How does this comment help?

    Is not the same true for a -RW in VR mode?

    I agree: the Sony has a relatively poor implementation of the <plus> format. It is much more flexible in the <minus> domain.
     
  15. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    I should have stated DVD Video mode that is true.

    It helps for future attempts, and was answering the question, "Will a DVD-RW produce the same outcome?" DVD-RW when in Video mode creates a DVD Video mode disc that doesn't have the problems with +VR mode. +VR mode isn't logically, or on the application level, a DVD Video disc as we know it, by and large it is a hack that does work, and allows it not to need a separate finalise stage and provides some simple editing options.

    The other method of importing the +RW disc to a PC would be to use something like Uleads DVD MovieFactory 3 Disc Creator edition, as it understands the non-standard stuff about +RW in +VR mode and will not complain.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  16. musukebba

    musukebba
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    689
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +16
    Did you read the thread before posting? We already have the ex-VTS MPEG2 file on the HDD of a PC, via DVD Decrypter.

    What we are waiting for is the signal that figrin_dan has been able to import and edit the title in MPEG2VCR.

    DVDMF3-DC is a good authoring program, but an idiosyncratic editor that re-encodes everything at the slightest change to the video content. That facet of the program cannot be recommended when seeking the best quality output.

    Your thoughts on the pro's and con's of the <plus> format compliance are irrelevant here and are confusing in this already tenuous thread. If you have any more to say on that subject why don't you start another thread?
     
  17. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    More so than you it seems, I read the questions post by the original poster, and my reply attempted to answer them: for example: "Will a DVD-RW produce the same outcome?" was one such question, I even listed them in my thread and numbered them in the same way, I am sorry you have a problem with this, but I can't see how I could have been any more on topic.

    My replies have been on topic in this thread, and you are the one attempting to turn it into an argument about formats. The posters questions were asking the differences between recording formats, I have given a true and accurate reflection on why problems exist with +VR (as used on +RW), and why such problems will not happen on DVD-RW (which uses the DVD approved Video mode).

    Your reply appears to be personal flame towards me, and as such you are the one going completely off-topic, so please, lets keep this forum a friendly place and stick to being polite to each other, is that actually possible around here?

    Regards

    Philip
     
  18. musukebba

    musukebba
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    689
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +16
    Some of us noticed the practical problems that the original poster was having:
    The subject of the thread had moved on to this latter and more practical part of the first post, so whilst 'on' topic-title you are 'off' topic-progression.

    However I guess we'll get your opinions whether we like it or not.
     
  19. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    Like I also pointed out, some of us noticed some questions gone on unanswered.

    Of course, it is a public forum, opinions are given because of that, regardless if they match your opinion or have your approval.

    Okay, I will answer that practical question:

    You could use DVD-RW in Video Recording mode, edit on the disc in the recorder then use something like DVD MovieFactory 3 to import and convert to DVD Video. Alternatively record to DVD-RW in Video mode then use DVD Decryptor that has no problems with DVD-RW as it doesn't use a hacked version of the DVD Video format, to export the MPEG and edit in your chosen editing software.

    The problems you are having with DVD Decryptor stem from +RW using the +VR format, they have been reported before, it isn't a new problem. Best of luck.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  20. musukebba

    musukebba
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    689
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +16
    Couldn't resist it, could you? I think others can see who is fishing for a format argument.

    More irrelevancies. If you do read the thread properly, as suggested, you'll see we are not having any problems whatsoever with DVD Decrypter.
     
  21. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    Oh I see, the penny has now dropped and I now understand where you are coming from, you are a +RW user who doesn't believe that the format uses a hacked version the DVD Video format, am I right? :hiya:

    This time last year a similar discussion was had relating to corrupt back up IFO files similar to the problem here relating to the +VR format, some of us have been there and done that, and it might help shed some light on the problem:

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109899

    Keep the faith! :rolleyes:

    Regards

    Philip
     
  22. musukebba

    musukebba
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    689
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +16
    No-one's interested in your tedious format opinions. Get back into your spaceship and touch down somewhere else, troll.
     
  23. figrin_dan

    figrin_dan
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,993
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +135
    Woah boys

    As the threadstarter, I guess it's up to me to clear things up.

    1) You are losing me on all the technical mumbo jumbo.
    2) I don't care what the format is.
    3) I'm not comfortable messing around with files and downloading countless versions of similar software.
    4) The simplest outcome would be for me to put a dvdrw into my pc and use dvdshrink to edit and create a dvdr.
    5) Quality is important, the highest quality setting I used was the default 2 hour setting. I have viewed the original disc on another sony dvd player and was disappointed with the picture quality. I have captured a couple of laserdiscs via s-video and got better quality- hence the PVR idea.
    6) In case you're wondering, I'm not planning on pirating tv material, I would simply like to keep the occasional specials (ie music concerts) which are not available to buy.

    Thanks for all the advice guys but it really isn't worth getting so emotional about.
     
  24. musukebba

    musukebba
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    689
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +16
    I'm not surprised - the interruption did not help matters.
    Neither do I. Someone else evidently did.
    Not even a month's free trial of one piece of software?
    That is one alternative, but somewhat inflexible if you want to introduce chapters and better menus.
    As I said before the thread was hi-jacked, I would suggest that the original video was re-encoded by Nero or Pinnacle, and the quality thus down-graded. I am suggesting an alternative which will preserve the original content quality completely.
    Sure - I do that too.
    You won't know then that PhilipL's reputation precedes his attachment to this thread.

    If you do go the PVR route then I suggest using RGB rather than S-Video if you after the best quality transfer.
     
  25. figrin_dan

    figrin_dan
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,993
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Ratings:
    +135
    dvddecrypter must be about the 8th peice of software I have downloaded to sort this simple task.

    Did you see the laserdisc check? I'm old school, can't really see the point of menus.

    If I only had RGB on my PC. . .

    I think I may give the sony another go, with a dvd-rw at a higher quality setting.

    btw for what it's worth, the dvd+rw was a 2.4-4x speed which the sony manual implied could not be used, I'm not suggesting this is my problem but it may be of use to others.
     

Share This Page

Loading...