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dvd disk protection

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by Conrad, Oct 6, 2000.

  1. Conrad

    Conrad
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    Just saw this on DVD-Debate. Cheers to gazza for the heads-up...Grim reading...

    Gazza
    DVD Protection could be worse than we thought!
    Fri Oct 6 14:55:14 2000


    I have just recieved word that many mod companies such as Techtronics and Scan that they have recieved a test disc for the new protection system.

    Many DVD Players refuse to load the test disc, even when the manual switching was enabled. This could now prove to be a big problem. The Sony 525, 725 & 7700 do not load the disc. Pioneer 525, 626D and the 717 do not load, but the new Pioneer players are ok. It does depend on which firmware you got though, so there is a chance that some might work.

    They are currently in testing with many different DVD players, but these are the only ones they have tried so far.
    It could prove a costly thing to get our players rechipped or firmware upgraded. I am now holding back on buying any new DVD's until this has been confirmed or denyied.

    Patriot is the first title to have the protection system on it (according to certain sources only). I personally do not fancy spending 100 quid on getting my DVD player to work again.

    what are your thoughts?



    ------------------
    Were you always this stupid or did you take lessons?

    I TOOK LESSONS!
     
  2. dUnKle

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    Now im not a big "TECHIE" but the idea sounds really, really stupid !

    My reason for thinking is this, how many members does this forum have ? well over 1000 and the majority of us have R1 players.

    The biggest reason for shopping on-line in the past 12 months has been to purchased DVD players !

    The sales of DVD players have been huge, it seems as if it has grown faster than anyone could have thought and I bet the majority are multi-region !

    Now the above points mean that the UK probably ( not seen any stats ) accounts for a fair chunk of R1 DVD sales. Then you have all the other countries to take into consideration as well !!!!!!! Surely the publishers and film companies know this and I kinda think they are probably feeling a little stupid for the idea of regionalisation of DVDs.

    However something that did occur to me as I typed this is the following. Have you noticed how quickly the BLOCKBUSTER titles are being released on R2 DVD. In some cases its the same day as R1 ! Now for this I can see ( kinda ) why they would prefer us to sell the R2 version. This part does not bother me. As long as the R2 is of good quality then I would buy it. GLADIATOR is even in DTS on R2 ! Now I know we have the censorship debate but this is not a big issue, well not for me. I only object to censorship when it detracts from the story or is very obvious and besides the BBFC tends to be much more relaxed these days.

    Anyway keep us informed on the situation !

    Oh and has anybody asked for the official line from and of the DVD sellers such as PLAY ? I think ill ask them ?

    ------------------

    "How could this happen? We started out like Romeo and Juliet but it ended up in tragedy."
     
  3. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    just had a reply from PLAY

    They have not heard anything.......yet

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    "How could this happen? We started out like Romeo and Juliet but it ended up in tragedy."
     
  4. bh

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    The Movie Store as already expressed concerns about the RCE from the vendor's perspective.

    Read more about it here....
    http://www.themovie-store.com/
     
  5. Guest

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    Just had a read bh and I am a bit pi**ed off with this attitude of Warner Home Video to say the least!

    In case anyone dosn't know what all this is about, here is the release from Warner taken from Movie Stores site (hope they dont mind)

    Regional Code Enhancement (RCE) Program





    WHV will start a program to enhance the capabilities of the regional code specification for DVD beginning in October. This program is a response to the unauthorized practice of altering DVD video hardware players so that they bypass the region code requirements for DVD. This is happening on a more frequent basis in many territories, and retailers are openly marketing these non-complying players with names such as “region free” and “multi zone”.



    The Technology – The enhancement is an additional imbedded code (RCE – Regional Code Enhancement) on the DVD disc that makes the current regional coding more robust.



    How It Works – In simple language, the RCE allows the disc to detect if a hardware player is region specific (as required by the CSS licensing agreement), or if it has been manufactured or altered in the market to be “region free”. If the player is “region free” the RCE will not allow the disc to play the program material. It will instead display a message on the television advising the consumer that the machine is not authorized to play this disc.



    The actual wording will be as follows:



    THIS DVD PLAYER MAY HAVE BEEN ALTERED AND IS UNABLE TO PLAY THIS DISC



    THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS DISC

    DVD PLAYERS AND DISCS ARE DESIGNED TO WORK IN CERTAIN REGIONS

    THIS DISC IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THIS PLAYER



    PLEASE CONTACT YOUR LOCAL RETAILER OR PLAYER MANUFACTURER FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

    WE APOLOGIZE FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE







    WHV will start applying the RCE to discs scheduled for release in the U.S. market beginning in late October. At this time, the RCE will only be applied to Region 1 versions of titles. At least one other studio (Columbia TriStar) will also be releasing discs with the RCE during the 4th quarter.



    The program has two objectives. (1) Discourage the export of region 1 discs to other regions and (2) discourage the sale of DVD video hardware that has been modified to “region free”.



    WHV Sales personnel should immediately begin to communicate this program to key retailers in their respective territories.

    It is especially important to focus on retailers selling product online, and any account, which may be exporting products outside Region 1.



    With the online retailers, we must discuss the need to properly notify consumers outside the region 1 territories that the disc may not play in their player before the disc is purchased. The customer dissatisfaction and returns risk is significant if this is not done.





    At this time there is no plan to send out a press release on this program. This document should be used to review the program with all U.S. accounts.



    ------------------
    " Sunset's are beautiful, new born babies are beautiful, this....this is fuc*ing spectacular!"

    http://www.ypcc.co.uk
     
  6. Guest

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    what the fudge?
    ****, i'm just about to buy my multiregion player, as i was looking forward to buying R1 discs due to them being cheaper (in some cases) and also fuller in content (not cut to ribbons by the bbfc). and now i hear about this rce?
    is it going to be worthwhile buying a multiregion player, or just save the cash and get it in its R2 locked format?
     
  7. Jay2000

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    OK - how about this scenario...

    My LG is chipped so I can 'set' it to a specific region (0-6). Now assuming I set the player to the correct region, will the RCE interpret this as an acceptable player? Or will it know my player is chipped and refuse to play?

    Hmmmmm.....

    Jay

     
  8. Guest

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    according to a recent email from techtronics it makes no difference if the player is auto or manual adjust [​IMG]
    however they said they were unable to comment fully because they haven't recieved a disc with RCE on it. Looks like we'll have to keep a close eye on the developments of this unwelcome new technology [​IMG]

    ------------------
    The Torch

    JSI Hardware
     
  9. Guest

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    I have been following the MANY discussions about RCE (Regional Coding Enhanced for anyone who dosn't know what the hell we are talking about), that are taking place over on the DVD Debate forum.

    A lot of people are VERY worried about this new development and a few have realised that this is not only going to affect us as R1 import buyers, but it is also going to affect a lot of the big import companies too (Play 247, DVD Box Office...etc) who's R1 sales to the likes of the UK must account for a lot of their imcome!

    I think it may be time to sit back and see what reaction they have (if any?) to RCE. Will they ignore it and let people buy these discs without any kind of warning, or will thye simply post a warning on the relevent disc info pages on their sites....until a time when ALL R1 discs have this protection?

    As someone else has said, there are ways around this (mostly at cost to the consumer of course!), we can buy two players...an R1, and an R2, a probable solution will be made available shortly after RCE is released by most of the top 'modding' companies to get rid of this unwanted new bit of software (for around the same price of modding the player again...of course).........or.....is this simply a big hoax by the likes of Warner to try and disuade us from buying R1...until everyone works out that this RCE dosn't actually do anything and Warner simply claim that someone has come up with the software to disable it??

    Like I said...these thoughts are mostly taken from various posts over on the DVD Debate forum (go take a look...this has really kicked up a stir over there!), but I really think we should just wait to hear the OFFICIAL word once one of these RCE equipped discs has been tried on a number of players by a reputable source.

    ------------------
    " Sunset's are beautiful, new born babies are beautiful, this....this is fuc*ing spectacular!"

    http://www.ypcc.co.uk
     
  10. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    Not trying to sound smug but I just remembered I still have my R1 only TOSHIBA set up downstairs for my Dad, so if this happens I should be OK !

    But I was under the impression that ANY DVD player which allows the region to be changed manually is infact acting as a player of THAT region. For example if selecting R1 on my PIONEER 919 then it becomes a R1 player.

    We had a discussion simiar to this B4 when someone mentioned that region codes were to be changed in a similar way but someone pointed out that if an R1 code was changed then not even a true R1 machine would play it.

    ------------------

    "How could this happen? We started out like Romeo and Juliet but it ended up in tragedy."
     
  11. Bada Bing

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    This all sounds a bit silly. My Nakamichi has region free capability out of the box, but if necessary I can specify a region for my player to be. In this case, the disc would say "Are you a region 1 player" I'll set it to region 1 so it'll say "yep" and all should be well. Surely all we have to do is ask for the option for selectable region control if necessary, and this new protection can be overcome?

    ------------------
    "The Sony KP41DS1U has a serious design fault, so don't buy one"
    Not at all against Robbie Williams (Glasgow) Ltd or companies with a similar name who threaten to sue disgruntled customers
     
  12. Steve J Davies

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    multi-region and region free are not the same thing.
    avoid region free and go for players that can change region.
    The genie is out of the bottle, the studios cannot control the world or the technology.
    At the end of the day I bet you can always get a good picture out of a pc with a good video card nad a software decoder...
    FUD is all it as. Exert your consumer rights.
     
  13. dodgey2

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    I have a Pioneer DVD F727 - A US multi-changer import from DVDMagic that is "Auto-region sensing". I'll let you know what happens 'cause this is quite an "odd" combo - i.e. US player that plays other regions (i.e.UK!) as well. Not the other way round.
     
  14. Guest

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    Guys,

    I think we are worrying a little too much over this....let me give you some reasons why!

    . No matter what this copy protection is-nothing is uncrackable!
    . When I bought my DVD players from Techtronics,I'm pretty sure they were guaranteed to play anything,if it turns out they don't,I'll look to Karl @ Techtronics to sort it out....they're good people and will come up trumps for all of us.The guy who actually designs all of the DVD modifications is a guy called Michael Stegen,he's been around for years,I first came across him when Videocrypt was first cracked on analogue satellite...he really knows what he's doing !Check out his web-site on www.stegen.com
    . WHV have to be very careful as there are a good deal of players out there (US and UK) that have multi-region ability built into their firmwares...remember the Matrix when it first came out ? Problems with the menus,etc?WHV will be ruining their own business if these machines do not play disks anymore as they are 'legitimate' machines.

    So all you guys who are about to buy multiregion...don't worry about it....but make sure it's guaranteed,enjoy what the rest of us do by choosing to buy Region 1!

    Cheers,

    Tom..
     
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  16. Duncan

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    Hmm- rumours, rumours- Techtronics reply to my email is below; they havent even got test disks yet!

    And I would bet that this wont even effect E-Mods as I believe they work the same way as in the early Pioneers where the region switching is done using the players existing multi-region capabilities; which would mean that even R1 players could have problems as essentially they are also inherently multiregion.

    Hope that makes sense!

    Anyway worst case probably is a new E-Mod- for under £50 which in light of what many of us seem to spend monthly on HC gear isnt a great amount.

    "Dear Sir

    Thank you for your email.

    Unfortunately we are not really able to comment until our engineers
    actually see a disc with RCE on it. From the sounds of it (all hearsay), ANY
    multiregion or code free player MAY be affected regardless of whether it
    has auto or manual region selection. Conversely, it is possible that this is
    the same as what is already in use by Buena Vista and MGM (which
    our true multiregion ugprades cope without any problem).

    Also, the very latest info (11/10/00) from a number of sources indicate that
    early production copies of the Patriot play fine in mulitregion players (but not
    in codefree region 0 ones). This suggests that this is indeed the same as the
    protection already seen in the past. We only use true multiregion upgrades.
    We do not use codefree hacks.

    Our engineers will of course be delving into the depths on this once they
    have a copy of a RCE disc. Until we have some definite facts and have done
    some testing, we are not able to comment further.


    From: "Duncan Barr" <duncan.barr@eidosnet.co.uk>
    To: <technical@techtronics.com>
    Subject: New Region coding
    Date sent: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:36:44 +0100

    > Hi,
    >
    > I bought a Pioneer 626 from you guys a few months back and wondered if you
    > had any news regarding this new Regional encoding from Warner.
    >
    > I just dont want to buy any more R1 discs if I wasting my money!
    >
    > Thanks, Duncan Barr
    >

    Regards,

    Chris
    Internet Operations Director

    --
    sales@techtronics.com
    technical@techtronics.com http://www.techtronics.com
     
  17. mysteriousjimmy

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    One thing people havn't mentioned yet is that R2 discs as well R4 here in Australia are going to carry RCE at some stage as well.

    I'm just wondering what will happen to discs that are zoned R2 & R4 on the same disc????
     
  18. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    This from PLAY 247s home page today

    Please note: Play247 has just been advised by the studio that the Region 1 DVDs The Perfect Storm and The Patriot have undergone 'Regional Coding Enhancement'. This means they have been designed to work only on North American Region 1 players. These discs will NOT play on multi-region or modified players. Because the discs themselves are not faulty we can only accept returns on genuinely faulty discs. We apologise for any inconvenience caused by this situation which is beyond our control.


    So ! is it true ? Will they work on a machine which allows the Region to be changed manually or ONLY on a true R1 machine. Im tempted to but THE PATRIOT just to see, as I do have a R1 only machine too

    ------------------

    "How could this happen? We started out like Romeo and Juliet but it ended up in tragedy."
     
  19. Duncan

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    Duncan,

    I believe the Patriot does not carry RCE technology- I quote from the email I recieved:

    "Also, the very latest info (11/10/00) from a number of sources indicate that
    early production copies of the Patriot play fine in mulitregion players (but not
    in codefree region 0 ones). This suggests that this is indeed the same as the
    protection already seen in the past. We only use true multiregion upgrades.
    We do not use codefree hacks."

    Good point about R2 disks though!
     
  20. dUnKle

    dUnKle
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    It does seem that this whole thing has suddenly got rather confusing !

    As I see it ( and I aint to technical bloke ) it seems to me as if you will be ok if you have a machine which allows you to change the region manuly using the remote control, if however you have a machine like the Samsungs that just play the film then you WILL have a problem.

    ------------------

    "How could this happen? We started out like Romeo and Juliet but it ended up in tragedy."
     
  21. Matt

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    From what i understand from some other forums is the disc asks if the player is region 1, it then asks if it can be region 2 as well. An auto switching player changes depending on what the DVD region is. A manual one is set first before the DVD goes in ie :
    Auto : DVD changes region code on player
    Manual : Player changes code first

     
  22. Duncan

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    Confusing yes!

    I also saw a bit on RCE at thedigitalbits.com and they also say the Patriot does not have RCE as RCE is only in the test phase and its not even certain that RCE will be implemented by even Warners.

    BTW how DO you set a Techtronics E-Mod to change region manually?
     
  23. Duncan

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    From the HCC news section:

    You may have noticed a kerfuffle developing in recent days concerning a Regional Coding Enhanced system being developed by Warners for use on some of its new R1 titles, such as The Perfect Storm. But as we at HCC suspected from the start, this is now looking like it was largely a fuss about nothing - or at least, very little.

    RCE works like this. When an RCE-equipped disc is put into a player, it asks the player if it’s a Region 1 player, then it asks it if it’s a region 2 player,and if the answer to both questions is yes, the disc won’t play. So if your DVD player has had its regional coding address system removed, or can only be set to all-region (R0) playback, you’re jiggered. But if your multi-region player is one where you can adjust the region to be just R1, you’ll be fine. Or if its multi-region modification is of the Techtronics autoswitching type where the player tells the disc whatever it wants to hear, you should also be fine. Certainly tests by the DVD Debate on The Perfect Storm using a Techtronics modified player revealed no problems.

    So in fact RCE does nothing more sinister than protection systems used for ages by the likes of Disney and MGM. And all it means in practical terms is that people whose hacked players can’t choose what region they need to be and so can’t play Disney or MGM discs will now have to add new Warners films to the list of titles they can’t buy. The rest of you can chill out - for the time being at least...
     
  24. DaveH

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    Hi everyone,

    Just checked the Patriot and it worked on my S7000 player (never modified) it does NOT work on my parents Toshiba SD2109 Auto switching from Leading Edge Concepts. Not sure why.

    I have put a similar posting in PATRIOT PLAYS FINE in this forum and also on CLEVER DVDS in the homecinema equipment forum.

    Dave
     

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