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DVD copying - yes that old chestnut again!

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by michaelm, Oct 2, 2003.

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  1. michaelm

    michaelm
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    Well, I went ahead and bought The Lion King Gift Set and, even with it's minor niggles, it has to be said it is magnificent.

    However, being a R1 set, it has no dts track (what the fudge Disney?) and I would love to have this in addition to what I already have.

    A friend is buying the R2 set, complete with dts.

    As I have already bought this movie, would it still be wrong for me to rip and copy the dts version of the R2 set, purely to complete the set?

    I mean, why should I buy another full set of The Lion King simply for a different soundtrack which could, should and wasn't included on the set I chose to purchase?
     
  2. nathan_silly

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    I agree with you. I've got Akira SE - which is only Pro-Logic Japanese audio. The studio's released another version which is dts Japanese 5.1 audio.

    I don't see why I should have to buy the dts version, as I've already bought it already.

    Blooming fat cats.
     
  3. Branxx

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    "would it still be wrong for me to rip and copy the dts version of the R2 set?"

    Nothing wrong, go ahead.
     
  4. nathan_silly

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    If this is OK, and I can prove that I own the original DVD- is it legal to ask someone to give me a copy of the Akira dts version?- just to cover the charge of the media?
     
  5. Garrett

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    I can sympathies with you, why not bring the best out in the first place, but on the other hand they improve every thing else say a av amps they add 5.1 to the pro logic then DTS, 6.1 surround etc.
    The should be a way where you can send them back and get a discount of the new disc.
     
  6. michaelm

    michaelm
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    Okay, I'm with you all so far.

    So in a case like this, so-called "piracy" is sort of justified?
     
  7. Daneel

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    I knew about the difference before I purchased, as did you. After you've bought the product you feel you are entitled to a copy of the other version because you don't have a feature you knew you wouldn't get?

    I'm just playing devil's advocate here BTW.
     
  8. nathan_silly

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    I didn't :( - regarding Akira.
     
  9. michaelm

    michaelm
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    I bought the version I thought offered the best value for money, Disney got their money.

    I also bough a new car recently. Nissan made it. It doesn't have alloy wheels. But I don't have to buy another car with alloys in order to get them, nor do I have to buy Nissan's own branded alloys, even though it's going on one of their cars. A strange analogy, but an analogy all the same

    And I never said that I felt entitled to a copy af "the other version". I own the copy I have, I would like it with a dts soundtrack. What's to stop me simply lifting the dts track, not the video, off the R2 disc and merge it into a legitimate backup copy of my own disc?
     
  10. Kevo

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    Nothing, as long as you can get round the speed differences between the R1 and R2 versions.

    Would it really be worth all the effort?

    Just go out and buy the R2 if your REALLY want the DTS version.

    Jeez i've bought duplicates of several DVDs (barebones and SEs).
     
  11. Daneel

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    If you want the DTS soundtrack you should buy the R2. It's as simple as that.

    You can't call what you intend to do either legitimate or a back up. It isn't a back up as it is different from the copy you have paid for and you didn't buy the DTS sountrack so it's a pirate copy. The fact that you aren't taking the video makes no difference.

    What was the point of your initial post? You felt a little guilty about what you are planning to do and wanted other forums readers to tell you it was ok, thus making you feel better?

    With things like this it comes down to your own conscience. If you can live with it, just do it.


    On the technical side...

    If you do decide to do this I don't think it will be as easy as it first seems. I don't think slowing down the audio is an option unless you happen to have a DTS encoder lying around. This means you will have to re-encode the video with a 4% speed up (29.97 fps + 4%), that should be interesting.

    Best bet would be to just make a direct copy of the R2. I can't see you getting the above to work without a lot of work and whatever you do will result in a degredation of quality. Since I assume you want the DTS sountrack for better quality, that would defeat the whole point of the exercise.
     
  12. KraGorn

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    Well since Disney [allegedy] stole Lion King from, I believe, a Japanese anime original and then had the bare-faced cheek to [allegedly] lie about it, then I think it'd be poetic justice to [allegedly] do the same to Disney.
     
  13. Daneel

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    :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
     
  14. michaelm

    michaelm
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    Daneel

    As your reply covers a lot of different aspects, I'll reply to each in turn.

    Oh right.

    I can when I was referring to the copy I theoretically ripped before adding the dts soundtrack.

    At least those muddied waters have cleared a little then.

    Um, no. I was just trying to add a new slant to the already "Tired And Tested" piracy theme. But thanks for telling me what I was thinking anyway.

    If I can, I will. But that wasn't and isn't the point.

    Best start reading up on a few articles and how to's...

    Not necessarily. It's amazing how much headroom Disney and other companies allow when they encode their video streams for dvd. Have you seen the downloadable dvd-r of Finding Nemo? Granted, a lot of the extras etc have been removed but then again, I've already got all the extras and only need the movie. No menus, extras, intros, zilch. I reckon 4.37Gb would suffice.

    Now I do not believe you wanted to say that! There are others on these forums that would happily disembowel you for suggesting dts was better quality than dd. :D
     
  15. Greg Hook

    Greg Hook
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    This is still piracy/illegal whichever way you look at it. You are only buying the licence to the one copy of the DVD not every single future or different versions released.

    What seems to be said in this thread is that if you bought something (anything can be used as an example), then found out you could buy the same item/model elsewhere but with extra features etc then it was OK to nick the better item as you had already bought the first one?

    Greg
     
  16. michaelm

    michaelm
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    No, I'm not buying a license, I'm buying a product. There is no EULA (thanks Micro$oft) and I do not have to agree to anything before using the product. Nor does it state that I have purchased a license.
     
  17. Daneel

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    I wasn't telling, I asked and then suggested what the answer might be. :)



    I'm not sure what you are getting at here. I was saying that your idea of using the R1 video with the R2 DTS sound is very difficult to achieve. I didn't mention anything about data sizes. The only option you realistically have without spending a lot of time and losing quality is to make a copy of the R2, video and audio.

    Indeed. You bought the R1 product and have no right to the R2! :D
     
  18. pete18

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    I think that if he has the r1, there no reason why he can't have a back up of the region 2 with DTS,

    If it's for his own use

    from pete
     
  19. jonnow99

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    Wouldn't you loose quality though, even by directly copying the R2 (minus the extras). Surely the movie and DTS track would take up more space than can fit onto a DVD-R thus forcing you to compress even further.

    If this is the case then it probably would be better to buy the original.
     
  20. Daneel

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    Where did I say it would have to be 1 DVD-R? Just use 2, 1 for each layer, problem solved. :)
     
  21. michaelm

    michaelm
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    I never suggested for a minute that I did.

    Here's what I think:

    I believe that as I have, in essence the same product bought and paid for, the only real issue is with the dts track. As far as that goes I think maybe things get a little greyer.

    The voices, sound effects, music etc is essentially the same on either the dts, dd or DEHT Mix. So I already have the video stream, which is exactly the same in both regions, and the audio stream, which, bar the audio format used, is exactly the same in both regions.

    The final decision on what I do will be my own. I know some of you have already passed judgement on me, that's a matter for yourselves. But I haven't yet decided what to do.

    And may the Lord have mercy on my soul.
     
  22. michaelm

    michaelm
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    As I said before, studios deliberately over-encode video. They do this to increase the size of the data on the disc in an effort to combat piracy. Disney also put huge chunks of movies in a fileset to increase the size of the data. Who Framed Roger Rabbit has a 30 minute segment sitting on the disc for no reason. Animation can also be compressed quite a bit more than real life imagery with little or no loss in quality.

    Believe me, The Lion King movie would fit on a dvd-r with no compression problems.
     
  23. Pack Dude

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    As for as I know it is illegal under British copyright law to copy copyrighted DVDs. When you buy a DVD you do not own the data which is on the DVD. So when you copy it you are breaking UK copy right laws, this goes for any copyrighted material.

    If you want to make legal copies of it buy the rights to the movie :)
     
  24. Daneel

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    michaelm: Please don't take my posts here personally. I said at the start I was playing devil's advocate. I have certainly not passed judgement on you and IMO your offense is minor and not something that would concern me for a second.

    You are almost certainly right about the compression btw, animation such as the lion king is very compressible due to low detail levels. Still, rencoding video will inevitibley lead to some loss in quality.

    pack man: That may be true (I used to know but I've forgotten) but DVDs themselves are on the fringe of legality. Their copy protection prevents "fair use" of the material, by law you are allowed to use short clips of films for various purposes and unless you have the appropriate software to remove the encryption this is not possible. This discussion would take the thread off at a tangent however and I suggest that if you want to discuss copyright issues in depth you should start a new thread on the subject.
     
  25. KraGorn

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    Much as I detest Macrovision and region coding, you're using the old flawed argument. AIUI ( a ) there's no such thing as "fair use" in UK law and ( b ) even in America where the is such a statute there is no legal requirement on content providers to make it easy for "fair use" to be practiced.

    All the law does is allow use IF THAT USE IS POSSIBLE, it doesn't legislate the use MUST be possible.
     
  26. Daneel

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    Good thing I'm not a solicitor :)

    I had a feeling that it wasn't illegal, hence "DVDs themselves are on the fringe of legality" rather than actually saying they were.
     
  27. Fjolle

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    yes its illegal, and i cant really see the reason to go through all this to get another sound format. You bought the r1 version because you would not pay for the dts version, and therefor you dont have the rights to get it. disney have to pay for the dts encoder etc...

    on another note it seems like the "pro" pirates made the copy without downsampling the video.
     
  28. Daneel

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    Actually I think he bought the R1 for the giftset. The complaint here is that it is not possible to get the giftset and the DTS soundtrack without buying both the R1 and R2 versions. I think that if such a version had been available michaelm would have bought it and this discussion would never have arisen. It wasn't that he wasn't willing to pay for DTS, just that he wanted the giftset also without paying for the film twice.

    I'm not sure what your "pro" pirates and "downsampling" statement is about. As already stated you can make a copy onto a single layer DVD depending on the size either directly or by rencoding the video. If you are willing to use 2 DVDs you can make a complete and identical copy, content wise, of the DVD.
     
  29. Fjolle

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    so... he can buy the giftset, and sell the dvds on ebay.. problem solved!
     
  30. michaelm

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    No, legally I cannot do that. I am allowed to import the R1 version of a dvd into this country for personal use only, meaning that I cannot loan it, hire it, sell it or even display it to anyone other than myself. Selling it on ebay would be a definite no-no, even if it were back to a R1 buyer.

    Daneel is correct when he states the reasons I decided to purchase the gift set. I've also stated what I believe to be the "grey area" I could flaunt if I decided to copy the dts version (please note that this is the movie with dts soundtrack only. I would not be copying menus, extras or any other soundtracks).

    Also, I would not be hiring the R2 version to copy it, I would only need to borrow it from a friend for about 30 mins to rip the files. I wouldn't even need to print a cover as I already have a 3-disc dvd case to house the original discs and the copy if I eventually need it.
     
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