DVD Audio players : 96Khz pcm output query !!

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by CJROSS, Dec 13, 2002.

  1. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    DVD Audio players : 96Khz pcm output.

    Can any of you rather fine dudes/dudettes who own DVD Audio players tell a hifi DAC owner like myself if the digital output of your DVD Audio player send a downmixed 96Khz pcm signal when playing 24/96 5.1 Surround mixes on DVD Audio, I currently do this at present for DVD Video 5.1 Dolby Digital @ 48Khz and was wondering what can be sent in resolution terms into my DAC (I get very acceptable results from DVD @ 48Khz), Im interested in having a Universal SACD/DVD Audio/DVD Video player to act as as a future transport and I am interested to know if I can tap into the 96Khz pcm data. I am basically querying the highest pcm output from DVD Audio machine on 5.1 24/96 surround mixes. Trying to find manufacturer info on this is very hard.

    I know I can run analogue ICs from the Front L&R 5.1 outputs on the universal player for stereo SACD & 2 Channel 24/192 Khz into a spare line input on my amp for prcoessing via the DSD decoder & 192 Khz PCM DACs on the universal player. But another good bonus woluld be any 96Khz material from DVD Audio (ie 24/96 surround mixes).

    I am not interested in 5.1 surround as I want to use a 2 channel hifi amp.

    TIA for any views.
     
  2. Jase

    Jase
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    Hi

    My Toshiba SD900 will not pass a 24/96 signal digitally. All Dvd Audio tracks are passed to the amp via the 6ch analogue outputs at whatever resolution 24/96, 24/192 etc

    Most Dvd Audio titles also come with a standard 5.1 track which can be passed digitally though.

    Just to confuse the situation slightly, there are some dvd players such as Pioneer that will pass a 24/96 signal digitally but I don´t think that applies for Dvd Audio (correct me if I´m wrong anyone!!)

    Presumably you´re stuck with either using the dvd players DAC´s to get the higher resolution Dvd Audio track or selecting the standard 5.1 track and passing it digitally to an offboard DAC.
     
  3. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    My Toshiba SD900 will not pass a 24/96 signal digitally. All Dvd Audio tracks are passed to the amp via the 6ch analogue outputs at whatever resolution 24/96, 24/192 etc

    Hey Jase thanx for the reply, OK I appreciate that your Tosh wont do that level (96Khz) of pcm resolution. But surely if a manufacturer does include 24/96 pcm output on their players as standard, that it should downmix the surround mix to the highest resolution the DVD Audio player is capable of, for example I know Pioneers DVD players (I own a 24/96 compliant Pie 717 for example and have used it for 24/96 DAD into a 24/96 capable DAC before), So surely the 656/747/757 can do this if it is possible with 48Khz level material at present, I have seen another SACD/DVD Audio/Video Universal player that can spew a pure 24/96 signal, that being the Marantz DV8300. Or is simply that 5.1 downmixes are confined to 48Khz on DVD Audio.

    Most Dvd Audio titles also come with a standard 5.1 track which can be passed digitally though

    Yeah a standard 5.1 DD 48Khz surround mix, but it would be nice to access 24/96 from DVD Audio, I do understand that I can still get DAC processing on the player to give me 5Ch 24/96, 2 Ch 24/192 from the analogue FL&R outs.

    Presumably you are stuck with either using the dvd players DAC´s to get the higher resolution Dvd Audio track or selecting the standard 5.1 track and passing it digitally to an offboard DAC.

    That is exactly how it looks at present AFAICT Jase I agree but that is just DVD Video standard @ 48Khz quality, the reason I ask is that I have had very acceptable playback from DVD Video @ 48Khz into a hifi PCM DAC. Whats your vibes on 2 Ch 24/192 material on DVD Audio is there a small amount of material recorded to that level, have you heard much ? That’s a nice player you have their dude BTW.
     
  4. Jase

    Jase
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    I´ve only heard one Dvd Audio disc, gave up on it as my Tosh has no bass management for Dvd Audio even when you select all speakers small etc (I have a sub/sat system). Can´t fault it for dvd video playback though.:)

    Been thinking about getting a bass management "box" from M&K then I´ll delve into dvd audio a bit deeper, but I never seem to get round to it!!:rolleyes: I´d rather do it properly than compromise on the sound.
     
  5. Jase

    Jase
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    What I´m not sure about is if the players that are capable of passing a 24/96 PCM signal, disable the digital outputs when the dvd audio track is selected.:confused: Wasn´t that the problem originally to try and stop people copying the discs from a digital source? Forcing everyone to use the analogue outputs.
     
  6. John Dawson

    John Dawson
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    A DVD-Video PCM track recorded at 96kHz sampling rate (there aren't many) may be output on the SPDIF at 96kHz and up to 24 bits if there is no copy protection flag on the disc preventing this and if the player's electronics supports this. Otherwise 48 kHz is the limit.

    Copy protected DVD-Audio digital outputs are limited to 16 bit 48 kHz on the SPDIF output by the licencing rules, although the internal DACs will be able to run at up to 192kHz/24 bit resolution.

    That's the way it is guys :-(

    John Dawson (Arcam)
     
  7. Jase

    Jase
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    Thanks John.:) That´s made it clearer.
     
  8. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    John

    As you say it seems (Ive just found a group test of SACD/DVDA players in an old HFN of mine) DVD Audio player limit 96Khz output to 2 Channel 24/96 from DAD discs, ie exactly the same resolution as some DVD Video players. Ho hum, well it sound like using the DVD Audio players DACs is the only wasy to access this in stereo mode.

    Thanks for your input dudes of higher resolution hifi.
     
  9. cjb110

    cjb110
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    I've been having a similar problem, my Pioneer 656A says it can handle 96khz and my Yamaha ax620 says it can as well and also that the display will indicate when it is reciving it...but I cannot get it to work.

    I've connected the 656a using the digital coax, stereo and the 5.1 output to the amp and I presume I need to pick the stereo option on the player and the amp but how?

    BTW both manuals say that 96khz wont be output digitally for copyright reasons.
     
  10. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
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  11. delyan

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    I think that I am a little late with the question here, but I'll try anyway. I have a JVC XV-FA902SL that is supposed to play DVD Audio, but when I play DVD Audio that is recorded at 96kHz/24bit, the player's display shows 48kHz. The manual says that there is no 96kHz output, at the same time the manual says that the player support 96kHz Linear PCM. I am confused. Is it the DVD player that can support 96kHz but can not output the signal or is it my DVD Audio that is not recorded at 96kHz/24bit?

    thanks
     
  12. John Dawson

    John Dawson
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    That's correct - your player is downsampling the DVD-Audio material to 16 bit, 48 kHz sampled audio for the SPDIF output. This is a legal requirement built into the licensing. The analogue output will however be derived from the original higher resolution signal.

    The SPDIF output from a DVD-Video disc suffers the same problem if the material is flagged as copy protected.

    HTH.

    John Dawson (Arcam)
     
  13. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Just as an addendum to Johns post above, Ive recently been running downsampled 96Khz material from my DVD-A player to my DAC which accepts 48Khz data, and Im pretty well stunned by the quality. A funny point about this ouput as John notes again is that the material available at 48Khz from DVD-A digitally can be copied onto a CD-R or MD deck ie its not flagged as copy protected, the material from DVD-V is generally copy right protected and cannot be copied. I find it ironic the higher resoltuion software allows copies (albeit 48Khz) but the lower quality DVD-V does not, even from 24 Bit 48Khz stereo IME.

    The only data I know that is output at 24/96Khz is from 2 channel DAD 24/96 (DVD-V high resolution stereo, I used this before into a 24/96 DAC with good results, but DVD-A came along and that was the end of that format.

    blast from the past anwyay 2002 eh ?
     
  14. delyan

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    John,
    does this mean that using analog cables outputs 96kHz signal? If not, do you know any DVD player that output 96kHz signals. I was looking at the new Panasonics. The manual says it outputs even higher frquency of the signal, but does it really do it?

    thanks
     

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