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DVD, Amp/Receiver and 5.1 for 3-6K

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Triggaaar, Apr 16, 2003.

  1. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    Yes I know the budget is a little vague to say the least. It’s not only on this forum I’m a newbie. I know very little about home cinema – don’t even own a dvd player yet (been saving). I’ve read through a couple of magazines (much of which I assume is journalist license, as opposed to fact) and read through this forum.

    I wasn’t sure whether I’d appreciate the difference between systems of hugely differing values, so I’ve been to the local sevenoaks, and tried:
    Denon AVR 1803, Pioneers 454, KEF eggs and sub - £1080 ish
    Denon AVR 3803, Denon DVD 3800, Quad 21 (front), Quad L (centre), Quad ? (rear), REL Quake sub - 4K ish

    So I know I don’t want satellites – I didn’t like the lack of mid range, which was most notable for music (stereo).

    And that’s all I know so far. I’m hoping to pop back to sevenoaks while the Quads are still set-up, so need to come up with something to demo against them.

    If I were to venture near the 6K figure, I’d have to really notice the difference over a 4K system.

    Any advice on what to demo, and receiver/speaker combinations that work well together, would be really appreciated.

    PS – I’ll be getting a 42" ish plasma, so want a decent DVD (pref PAL prog scan).

    Cheers.
    Mike
     
  2. sounddog

    sounddog
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    For a 6k system i'd be looking at ...

    Rotel RSP1066 (£1000) or TAG AV30R (£1800)
    Rotel RMB1075 (£850) 5 channel amp = RB1070 2ch (£450) amp if you want 7ch
    Pioneer 757ai (£600) DVD player (promised PAL ProgScan firmware to come)
    B&W CDM Series speakers (around £2000 depending on configuration)
    REL Q201 or Velodyne CHT10 sub

    Vikki
     
  3. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    Perfect, thankyou. Where do I sign?

    I've been reading through the 'Denon A1SR or Rotel seperates?' thread, and one of your points there was re upgrading - I won't be upgrading in the short term (although adding the RB1070 if 7.1 becomes the norm could be handy). I've waited this long with no system at all (I wanted to keep saving rather than keep upgrading), I can wait a while to upgrade once I get a system.

    How about closer to the 3/4K mark? I'm concerned about not appreciating the differences between a 4 and 6K system.

    Mike
     
  4. ditton15

    ditton15
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    [belated deleted as irrelevant :blush: ]
     
  5. MuFu

    MuFu
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    6 x Kef Q1s (£625)
    Velodyne CHT-15 (£684)
    NAD T762 (£850)

    Then ~£600 on a DVD Player and ~£400 on stands and interconnects.

    MuFu.
     
  6. 337GUS

    337GUS
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    Mike

    £6K
    DVD:
    Arcam DV89 or Pioneer 757i

    Pre / Processor:
    Tag AV32 (used) or Rotel 1066

    Power Amps:
    3 x Rega Exon Mono Blocks and 1 x Maia Stereo

    OR Integrated Amp:
    Pioneer AX10i

    2 Pairs B & W 603 S3
    1 x LCR 600
    Rel Strata III

    Cables / Stands / Rack



    £3/4K
    DVD:
    Arcam DV88P or Pioneer 757i or Denon 2800 MkII

    Amp:
    Pioneer 2011 or Denon 3803 or HK5550

    2 Pairs B & W 603 S3
    1 x LCR 600
    Rel Strata III

    Cables / Stands / Rack


    IMHO most people would notice a difference, it's all down to how much you are comfortable spending. The room acoustics also play a part, you need to be able tio set the system up to suit it's strong points, for example some speakers need space around them and others sound better nearer a wall.

    Usual advice - find a friendly dealer and audition.

    Gus
     
  7. sounddog

    sounddog
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    Going back to your original question ... what to demo against ... gives a few options.

    First ... keep the 3803 as the Amp, and go for better speakers ... B&W CDM series, KEF XQ series and Monitor Audio Silver series come to mind as a good step up from the Quad Q series.

    Then once you've checked out the improvement you get from better sepakers, then try changing the amp. Step up from the 3803 and you get a few options, one box or processor and power amps. The AX10i or AVC1SR would be logical to test for one box solution, or look at the Rotel, TAG and possibly Arcam processors with a Rotel or Arcam power amp.

    For DVD players ... (IMO) it's not worth spending much more than £1000 - depending on the features you want.

    First up is the Pioneer 757ai - this has SACD / DVD-A and is NTSC Progressive Scan with the promise of a firmware upgrade to PAL PS. From tests and reports, this has the best PQ of the 3.

    Next up (price wise I mean) is the Denon 3800MkII - this is PAL PS (IIRC), but has neither DVD-A nor SACD.

    At the top of the pile is the Arcam DV88+ / DV89 - these are fundermentally the same player, both PAL PS with the DV89 (when it's launched) adding DVD-A. The Arcam will sound the best with CDs but the others make a good effort and are close runners up when spinning CDs. Even better (for playing CDs) would be the Pioneer DVD player plus a £4-600 CD player ... costing in total about the same as the DV89 is.

    Anyway ... best to find a friendly dealer with a range of kit ... start back with the 3803 + Quads, and work up from there till you stop noticing a difference.

    Vikki
     
  8. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    Thank you all.

    First off I’ll try and see how much of a difference I can feel between a couple of systems. If I really feel ‘wow this is much better’, I’ll spend closer to the 6k and be happy. Otherwise I may as well save a few k (may even get tempted towards a 50” plasma).

    Good plan to just change one element at a time, but I’m not sure how: I’d like to be able to listen to one, then the other straight away (as I’m not confident I could pick up the differences easily otherwise), so unless I should ask them to have say two sets of speakers set-up for the same amp in one room, and change between them(?) I may have to settle for completely different set-ups in their 2 demo rooms.

    Amp wise, it sounds like I should at least try the Rotel pair or AX10i (how does the AX10i connect to the 757Ai? – I’ve not understood references to I-link etc).

    DVD – I agree I shouldn’t need to spend more than a grand – somewhere between the 757 and DV88plus (I haven’t seen much on the Denon 2800 MkII you mention Gus, I’ll do a search. I assume (but really don’t know) I should be looking above the Pioneer 656A purely because I’m after a 42” screen - or does the extra few hundred go more towards audio than video?

    I like the sound (I mean idea – I haven’t actually heard them) of B&W – either DM603 S3 series or the CDM series (which I like the look of).

    Would all the above match fine with each other (AX10i with DM603, or Denon 3803 with B&W CDM), or would higher specked components be wasted with lower specked partners?

    PS - Dealer being very helpful

    Mike
     
  9. dunkyboy

    dunkyboy
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    Have to chime in here - if you're going to spend that much on your home cinema, I feel obliged to recommend ATC speakers. :)

    Cheapest you could go for would be 5x ATC SCM-7 speakers (or 4x the 7s plus a Concept 1 centre, if you can't accommodate a regular speaker as the centre), at £240 each, which should total about £1200, then add a Velodyne CHT-15 sub (£684), for a total of <£1900 for speakerage. Then you can select your electronics depending on how much more you want to spend - the above suggestions are all good.

    Or, you could spend a little more (particularly handy if you've got a bigger room) - if you like the passive route, just upgrade the front three to ATC's bigger, badder SCM-12s (£500 each), for a total speaker/sub cost of less than £2400, then add electronics to taste/budget.

    Another option (and my favourite) would be to go active - swap the front three for ATC's superb Active 10s at £630 each and you'll have some SERIOUSLY good sound (believe me when I say these will easily thrash all the other speakers you've mentioned so far :) ). The built-in amplification (250 watts per speaker) will save you from having to buy power amps (a major expense in high end home cinema!) and is excellent value - not to mention the fact that the actives sound SOOOO good. :D You'd just need a half-decent two-channel power amp for the SCM-7s in the rear (unless you can afford to go Active all the way.....:devil: )

    With three Active 10s, two SCM-7s, and the CHT-15 sub, the total is about £3000. Add a secondhand TAG, a 2-channel power amp, and one of the DVD players mentioned and you would have one *frighteningly* good home cinema for around the £5000 mark. :D

    Cheers,

    Dunc

    P.S. - For £6000 you could go for Active 10s all around - hoo momma!
     
  10. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    That sounds very tempting. I'm in the process of trying to move, and won't buy the system until I'm in the new place (couple of months). Problem is, I hate the layout of the new living room.

    Speakers aren't going to get as much space as many would like (going could have 1, maybe 2 feet, but I'd prefer to offer less) - do the ATC Active 10s need more space - and same question for the B&W CDM series? If so, what are good speakers with limited space (the less the better)? Maybe I should ask that in the right forum :)

    Thanks again
    Mike
     
  11. Nobber22

    Nobber22
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  12. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    Had a look, did a search on the forums, and general opnion was that its all lies.
     
  13. Nobber22

    Nobber22
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    Come again?:eek: All lies? Can you direct me to the thread/s please, as I am about jump into the Zens and haven't heard a bad word about them anywhere. I love their sound.
     
  14. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    Do a search in Speakers for +leema +xen
    I'd put the link in, but I'm too stupid
     
  15. nezza

    nezza
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    I had a demo of the Linn Classik Movie System with Gallo A'Divas last week. It was awesome, and the newer Classik Movie Di should be even better (and a lot less limited)

    HTH

    Neil
     
  16. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    For more options on speakers look at Proac, very small and sounded awsome at bristol!! They have since launched a dedicated centre at £900 pounds a pair they should come in at sub £2500 for the 5
     
  17. codling

    codling
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    how about


    arcam 88+ £1000.
    tag av32 bp192 5.1 £2500.
    rotel rmb 1075 5 ch amp £800.(?)
    pair b&w 603s3 £600
    pair b&w 602s3 £250
    B&W LCR600 S3 £350
    Velodyne CHT-15 £684

    total £6184

    if bought altogether you could probably get about 10% discount.

    this would be a great sounding system

    carl:)
     
  18. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Codling where have you seen 602s3 for £250??? please tell!!!!
     
  19. simonthepieman

    simonthepieman
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    i'm with dunkyboy go with the ATC's the best speakers by far
    active 10's will do it and find a 2nd hand tag with pioneer 757
    or arcam.
    Use atc like they use when mastering the dvd's !!!
     
  20. simonthepieman

    simonthepieman
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    ATC's do not need a great deal of space can go close to walls
    but depends on room etc.
    BUt i would try to find a 2nd hand rel sub,strata or storm or
    q201e or q400e.
     
  21. codling

    codling
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    whoops....:blush: soz hornydragon meant to put £299.

    carl
     
  22. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Never mind i thouyght my Barclaycard was going to be in for an easter bashing!!! But its not to be! Super-Fi did have them at £250 for a week in their sale but i was skint!
     
  23. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    If buying new:

    Pioneer AX10 (£2000 from go2camcorder)
    B&W Nautilus 805 fronts (£1400)
    B&W Nautilus HTM2 centre (£850)
    B&W Nautilus CDM 1NT or SNT rears (£750)
    Denon 3800 DVD (£800 from PRC Direct)
    Paradigm Servo 15 subwoofer (£500 from Richer Sounds).

    Total: £6300.

    You might consider a Denon A1SR instead of the AX10, or an Arcam DV88+ instead of Denon 3800.

    And of course stands and cables and delivery will add on a bit.

    IMO this will give you far better results than hooking up an expensive processor and amps to cheaper speakers. In fact if anything I'd say the speakers are the weak link in the above system.

    You might also try contacting The HiFi Experience on Tottenham Court Road and ask them to ask B&W if they have any B-Stock speakers in the above categories. That would knock ~15% off the price of the speakers.
     
  24. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    With your stated budget you have a great deal to choose from, and everyone is going to give you different options based on THEIR personal preferences.

    My advice would be to find a good dealer (independant) and do a lot of research and demoing of different systems. Watch out for dealers who just recommend products they sell. A good dealer will recommend many different products, and ones they dont stock as normal.

    You have to decide what you want from the system. What is important to you? Picture quality, Movies or Music and then base your system to suit you and your surroundings. A good dealer will think nothing of lending you some equipment to try in your room, and this is very useful for demoing speakers.

    If you just want a great Movie system, then a good intergrated amp, Denon SR1, Pioneer ax10, H&K thx, Onkyo 989, are the ones to try first.
    For Movie speakers try Jamo D7 THX Ultra 2 system with the above amps. That should leave you with about £800 for a DVD Player. This is just a starting point mind you.
    For Both Movies and Music, then try a Tagav32r and Rotel 1075 and the new M&K 850 system, and a velo cht-15. Great movie sound along with excellent 2 channel.
    You could also demo the Rotel 1066 pro and 1075 amp along with some of the speakers mentioned above.

    The good idea about going for seperate pre and power, is that you can later upgrade as funds allow.

    I would however avoid the Tag AV30r as this is not in the same league as the AV32r as far as future upgrades go.

    Good luck, and remember to demo demo demo.....
     

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