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DV88+ not impressed.

Discussion in 'Arcam Owners' Forum' started by Smurfin, Apr 20, 2004.

  1. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Well this is my second DV88+ (sold the last one a few months ago to trade down, but couldn't resist the Creative audio deal:)) and honestly, I'm very disappointed with it.

    Overall the picture quality is better than my Philips 963a, but as soon as I fired it up yesterday the chroma bug smacked me right in the face. Reds look terrible imho, and results in a less satisfying picture than my Philips.

    Not only that those damn horizontal lines showed up again...why do I see these when no other DVD player I've ever owned has this flaw????? It happened with my first DV88+, and its happening again; the lines appear onscreen for literally 1 or 2 frames and usually as a new scene cuts onto the screen. I watched 2 episodes of The West Wing (season 1, region 1) yesterday and 4 times did I see these lines:mad:

    Anyone else share my sentiments? Or am I simply going mad?
     
  2. rags

    rags
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    What exactly do you mean by lines ?
     
  3. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    It's like the whole picture structure becomes visible for a split second....hundreds of horizontal lines flash across the whole image for 1 frame (enough to be annoying, to start with some people don't notice it but once you do....:()
     
  4. Matt Horne

    Matt Horne
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    Can't say I notice this.. and I've had a DV88+ since they were available.. what display are using? progscan or interlaced ?

    Matt
     
  5. Cameron

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    hi there, you can try the following

    On the DV88 Plus go into the set-up menu.
    Press 2 0 1 0. You should now be in Progressive Scan Menu #2.
    Change the CRT Mode. I think the default is ON. Change it to OFF.

    Also, try setting your DVD88+ to PAL only in the menu (not auto or NTSC).

    They may well solve your problem - espeically the top one.

    CaM
     
  6. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    I think it's called a bad edit. I have tried lots of DVDs and had no problems, but SG-1 R1 was unwatchable last night.

    Cameron what exactly does the crt mode do?
     
  7. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    Smurfin, I think this is definitely is the players inability to handle bad edits:

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volu...uide-to-progressive-scan-shootout-1-2003.html

    The link above shows an example, and this is what I am experiencing and it sounds like the same problem you are having.

    Here is what the secrets guide has to say:

    This never happened on my denon 3800. Does this mean that if we don't want to see bad edits we are going to have to plump for the si upgrade board?

    Some input from arcam would be great.
     
  8. Cameron

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    I'm not quite sure what the CRT mode does; but I know when my Sim2 was having problems with the DV88+ I turned off the CRT mode and it fixed alot of my problems.

    There is no difference in quality between the 2, it is merely a compatibilty settings.

    I hope that helps :)

    CaM
     
  9. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    Cheers cam.

    Again, it would be great to hear from arcam themselves...
     
  10. RaceTripper

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    I'd like to know the anwser to that as well. I have a DLP monitor. Should CRT mode be off (it's On on my DV88+)?

    Dean
     
  11. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Input from Arcam would be excellent. Glad I'm not the only one seeing this issue...
     
  12. Cameron

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    I would say that if you are having troubles trying turning CRT off to see if it fixes it.

    CaM
     
  13. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    That has no effect on bad edits :mad:

    Arcam continue to respond to questions regarding the dv79 but ignore this thread, even though the dv79 has the same deinterlacer and subject to the same bad edits.
     
  14. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Must admit I haven't tried it yet, will try it later tonight or tomorrow.
     
  15. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    I've not tried the CRT mode yet, but I set the video to "PAL" - and on the Fox intro trailers (you know the ones, showing old movies like the Abyss and Fight Club etc) where the lines were really bad (lots of fast cuts) the lines disappeared. I've just watched something briefly but this looks to have sorted it:)

    But having set it to PAL...does that mean it won't output NTSC progressive now:confused:
     
  16. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    It means all ntsc stuff will be converted to pal....yuck.

    Getting tired of ssaying this, but some input from arcam would help...:lease:
     
  17. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Yeah, it looked awful frankly, some terrible juddering, so I switched it back to Auto. I also tried the CRT switch and it hasn't affected it. It's a real shame, as the pic is much better than my Philips.

    As a matter of interest, what display are you using Urot?

    I phoned Creative audio yesterday and they've been great, saying that they've never had a single Arcam 88+ back for the problems I've noticed (equipment incompatibility? or maybe I'm just susceptible to seeing these "lines"?), but they're happy to refund me my money.

    Doubt Arcam will respond on here tbh, which leads me to believe they know exactly what we're talking about...
     
  18. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    I'm using a fujitsu p42vha30 (improved panny 6 glass).

    That's really disappointing.

    The only reason I bought a dv89 was because of arcams customer service, and also because John Dawson has said on many threads here that the Vaddis5 was an "excellent deinterlacer". I don't expect it to be as good as the SI 504, which it isn't, but to not correctly handle bad edits is terrible at this price point.

    If creative audio agreed to refund you, I will probably return my dv89.

    I am so disapointed in Arcam:mad:
     
  19. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
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    Have you exhausted all the PQ settings on your 963 ?
    I am interested that you prefer the Arcam, thought the opposite myself. :cool:
    Been watching this thread since you first posted, wasn't going to reply because I can't help with your problem, this being the purpose of a specific Arcam forum I guess. Great as it is to have an authoritive manufacturer voice here, can't help notice Arcam are undeniably selective responding to threads.

    Creative Audio are great ! :smashin:
     
  20. Matt Horne

    Matt Horne
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    Why not ring/email the arcam tech support rather than hope they will reply here ?

    Matt
     
  21. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Because it won't do any good, it's a "trait" of the player. My first DV88+ did the same on trailers but it didn't really bother me too much as I rarely saw it and it was one giant leap ahead of my Skyworth player; but after living without the chroma bug for a while and then seeing the lines again it's really annoyed me.

    Anyway, I don't really care any more as I'm taking the player back:)

    Cheers
    Matt
     
  22. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    It does seem that arcam are only interested in talking about their soon to be released products such as the avr300 or dv79.

    If arcam had replied to this thread I probably wouldn't be taking my dv89 back, but the complete lack of response has put me off arcam.

    Shame really, all arcam have done is lost two customers who may have purchased arcam in the future.
     
  23. Matt Horne

    Matt Horne
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    But you have to remeber this is not a Official Arcam support forum.. its always best to talk to them directly (or through your dealer)..

    I've had mine for a couple years now and not had any issues with the picture.. though tbh I have not tried progscan yet and I do not have large screens (plasma/projector) but a 28" (soon to be replaced 32" Thomson) so maybe thats why its never bothered me!.

    Good luck with whatever you choose next.

    Matt
     
  24. baileych

    baileych
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    To be honest I think you should see Arcam's presence here as a bonus. None of the Arcam employees who post here have a huge amount of time to spend here and I suspect that the title of this thread "not impressed" makes this thread look as thought it would be a negative rant thread, regardless of its actual content, so I'd be surprised if they haven't just skipped it without reading.

    If you need to get Arcam's input on something then give them a ring. This is their supported help route; these forums are not. Everytime I've needed to speak to them (only twice!) they've been more than helpful.

    I find it amusing but sad that people complain about companies like Arcam who have a presence on avforums when they wouldn't about companies with no such presence. You don't get people going: "I had huge problems with my ***** DVD player, I've posted N times and nobody from ***** every replied, their employees don't even care enough to visit these forums!"

    Charles.

    [Edit: beaten too it by Matt, but my comments still stand.]
     
  25. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    Good points all, equally I would argue that as Arcam do have a presence here - i.e John Dawson, the man himself - he'd show an interest in what is a justifiable cause for concern.

    But point taken, this isn't a manufacturer's support forum.
     
  26. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    I am sure arcam tech support wouldn't know a bad edit if it smacked them in the face. I have provided a link on this thread explaining it, so it would be ALOT easier if someone from arcam would respond (both john dawson and andrew dutton are answering many questions regarding new products, but continue to ignore this thread).

    I think it's clear that from arcams lack of input the Vaddis5 deinterlacer is of poor quaility. Taken from the secrets dvd benchmark regarding "bad edits":

    Says it all really :rolleyes:
     
  27. gringottsdirect

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    That's definitely true, noticed you used *****, that would fit Denon, having seen all the threads over the years complaining about Denon issues, and knowing for a fact that Hayden Labs read AV forums and have NEVER posted a response !
    Same applies to countless other companies, possible difference being that Arcam are sold as being higher performance products from specialists with superior after sales service appropriate to their price points i.e. they CARE.
    What isn't amusing or particularly sad is that sometimes people are posting technical queries which receive no response, their threads being overlooked whilst others receive a quick response.
    It appears that if an Arcam response may inspire a sale rather than confirm known difficulties to people who already spent their cash, so it goes. Denon Jeff on AVS regularly disappears for periods when things get tricky.
    It can be positive PR for them but sometimes not, suppose we should be grateful they take the time to get involved when they do, but let's be realistic it is ultimately for their benefit.
     
  28. baileych

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    Any resemblance of ***** to any real manufacturer is purely coincidental. I chose 5 stars as it covered the name 'Arcam' as I was typing but I had no alternative company in mind.

    Urotsukidoji,

    You've talked to Arcam TS then?

    I have no problem with you deciding that the DV88+ is not of sufficient quality for your money. That is your opinion and by all means say as much. However, I do think that statements like:

    are misguided at best. To view the product, as you have done, and to decide that it's not good seems entirely reasonable but to decide that it is poor quality because employees of the manufacturer haven't posted on the subject in a thread on an unsupported forum does not.

    It is not for me to defend Arcam or speak for them but I'd have thought that you would only be harming yourself by not using a reasonable method to choose the best equipment for you. Again, it is your choice, please do not take any offence as none is intended. We are only trying to help.

    Charles.
     
  29. ANDY_DUTTON

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    Hi,

    I have not replied to this thread because I mostly design surround sound decoders so do not have good any answers for you.

    I have never seen the problem you are describing however it does sound like a decoding problem. Please do contact our customer support department who may be able to help you, even if it is only to say that it is a known problem.

    I am very sorry to lose you as a customer however I have no solutions to your problems at the moment.

    Our support on these forums should never be taken as a replacement for the customer services department at ARCAM. I sometimes spend long periods of time out of the country and clearly there are alot of things I am not qualified to answer or I may simply be too busy to visit here and I know Johns is in a similar situation.

    Regards, Andrew.
     
  30. Urotsukidoji

    Urotsukidoji
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    You have it all wrong.

    Go to the following link:

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volu...uide-to-progressive-scan-shootout-1-2003.html

    It describes all the problems a deinterlacer faces, it even provides screenshots.

    The problem we have is what is known as a "Bad Edit".

    This tests whether the player can handle hiccups in the 3-2 cadence without combing.

    [​IMG]

    "This is a huge, huge issue, and the thing that really separates the best deinterlacers from the worst. Combing is one of the most visible artifacts, and avoiding it on material like this is difficult. We feel strongly that players that can't pass this test are not worth considering, given that there are inexpensive players that do pass it."

    If you have a dv88+, dv89 etc. and you pop a disc in like any ntsc stargate sg1 for example, be prepared to see lines at EVERY scene change, so thats about alot of bad edits.

    I am not saying the dv89 is a bad product because Arcam do not respond. I am saying that these arcams comb on bad edits, which should not happen when you are spending alot of money on a dvd player (remember, many cheap p.scan players can pass this test).
     

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