DV88 does'nt play Copy Protected CD's

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by ukpete, Apr 26, 2002.

  1. ukpete

    ukpete
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    On top of all the other problems inherrent in the DV88, it fails to play copy protected CD's (Shakira, amongst others). This worries me bigtime, as the music industry is striving towards Copy protection in a big way.

    Has anybody else experienced this problem with CD's ?

    Mine is running v1.74 with the lo14 drive
     
  2. Seany boy!!!

    Seany boy!!!
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Don't blame your player, blame the disc.
    cut and pasted...

    'Compact Disc' logo owner refuses to implement the technology
    Philips, the Dutch company which co-created the Compact Disc format along with Sony almost 20 years ago, is standing defiantly against the industry's use of copy-protected CDs.

    The firm has warned that discs protected with such technologies could not be classed as compact discs and can't use the 'Compact Disc' logo that has been stamped on every CD since the format was developed.

    Record labels are also being pressured by Philips to include warnings to consumers that copy protection techniques are used on a CD and may cause problems with some devices.

    The big five record companies - Bertelsmann BMG, Vivendi Universal, Sony, EMI and AOL Time Warner - have been steadily introducing the controversial formats which prevent the copying or 'ripping' of CDs to MP3 since last year.

    But Philips, which also governs the Compact Disc trademark, is refusing to follow suit under the acknowledgement that the introduction of such technology could do more harm than good.

    Designed to protect the copyright of record companies in the wake of such technologies as Napster, which sparked a flood of copyright infringements, a variety of protection technologies have been tested on an uninformed public.

    At the end of last year big stars such as Michael Jackson and Natalie Imbruglia came under fire from consumers when copy protection systems were used on their CDs without any warning on the packaging.

    The UK release of Imbruglia's White Lillies Island album prompted numerous returns after it emerged that the quality and playability of the CD may have been impaired by copy protection technology.

    It has come to light that a high number of these untried and untested technologies, such as Cactus Data Shield, not only prevent the CDs being read in a CDRom drive but cause problems on a number of standalone CD players.

    The UK Campaign for Digital Rights (UKCDR), which is fighting against the proposed European Copyright Directive, our equivalent of the controversial Digital Millennium Copyright Act, estimates that well over a million of these CDs have already been released in the UK alone, often with no visible warning.

    Jim Peters, who heads up the UKCDR, has posted a warning on the group's website which says: "The record companies seem determined to keep going along this path. Universal, for instance, has said that it wants all of its CDs copy-protected within six months. We feel that they should not be allowed to get away with this."

    He added that there were still unlabelled copy-protected CDs available to buy in the shops. "The public is still being lied to and misled. We want this issue to become common public knowledge so that the record companies can no longer get away with all these underhand tactics," he said.
     
  3. docsmith2k1

    docsmith2k1
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Messages:
    520
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Liverpool
    Ratings:
    +17
    My DV27 is running v1.76 and has no problems with protected CDs. Try upgrading the software.:)
     
  4. ukpete

    ukpete
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yeah, I understand the issues suurounding Copy Protection (and personally object to it), but the reallity is that the music industry is losing millions through ripping and they are going to do everything they can to make it as difficult as possible to copy discs (including DVDs). The logical conclusion is that in the not too distant future most discs will use copy protection.

    Having spent £900 on a DVD/CD player I really expect it to be able to play any CD (regardless of format) or DVD faultlessly and without exception.

    I have heard that it will require a new drive unit (LT version) to fix this problem so I've just taken it back to the shop to see if they can get it fixed.

    I guess I'll find out soon enough if ARCAM are serious about supporting their products and customers.

    I think other DVD88 owners of older models are gong to be in for a nasty surprise too.
     
  5. Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Post this to uk.rec.audio, John Dawson (MD of Arcam) will almost certainly reply personally. He posted on this very subject last week (see Google).

    Mike.
     
  6. MarkTaylor

    MarkTaylor
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    4,327
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +665
    It certainly is going to be interesting to see how this thing plays out.

    The DV88 does play CD's perfectly well, the problem is that these copy protected things are not CD's by the strict definition of the CD logo mark license.

    If Arcam can fix this then that is great news, but they should not have to accept any cost in making changes, nor should you. The fault is with the record companies deciding to tinker with the CD format and thus causing these problems.

    Mark
     
  7. ukpete

    ukpete
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Mike, thanks for the info, but I cant find any articles on uk.rec.audio regarding this.

    could you paste in the url.

    ta

    Pete
     
  8. ukpete

    ukpete
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    forgot to ask if anybody knows what other CD's dont work ?
     
  9. Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Pete,

    Here's what he said:

    "These discs are I believe protected with Sony's Key2Audio and there
    are others that are protected with Cactus Datafile. The idea is that
    they will play in all home CDPs, DVD players etc but not in computer
    drives.

    The topic is quite hot in the record and audio manufacturing community
    and I just had a run in with Paul Jessop of the IFPI who claimed at an
    AES conference last week that since there were virtually no returns to
    the record industry that these discs were effectively compatible with
    almost all consumer CDPs out there. I had to point out to him that
    complaints were instead made to the player manufacturers. A beautiful
    moment then occurred as this was seconded by a guy from the back of
    the hall who turned out to be a senior engineer from a large German
    car company who have been seeing these discs not play in the head
    units of their £20,000 + automobiles.

    So with the car industry seeing this problem in possibly quite a big
    way this battle is not yet lost - complain like hell guys, especially
    if the discs are not prominently labelled and/or are in the CD section
    of your local record store. Remember - THESE ARE NOT CDs and anyone
    selling them as such is guilty of "passing off" in law.

    (Rant over)

    For further reading see http://www.stereophile.com/shownews.cgi?1261

    There is also a US list of suspect "CDs" at www.fatchucks.com
    though it is likely that some of these discs are not copy protected
    but have other issues.

    John Dawson (Arcam)"

    The thread was regarding the CD72T. Nevertheless, I'd still recommending adding your voice to the chorus at the newsgroup.

    Mike.
     
  10. John Dawson

    John Dawson
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2001
    Messages:
    852
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    Ratings:
    +112
    This problem is exactly what I predicted would happen to Paul Jessop of the IFPI two weeks ago :-(

    For the record we have been working behind the scenes for some months to get drive firmware fixes for these so called "CDs". Drive firmware for LT drives (now fitted to our DVD players) from LT21 onwards I think supports replay of Sony's key2audio discs and somewhere around the same firmware number (but I'll need to check up in th eoffice next week) supports Catus Datashield encoded "CDs".

    Earlier players using LK or LO drives do not currently support these copy protected "CDs". Again we are working on it but I cannot promise a solution - we'll see what support we can get from the drivemaker.

    So it's not the player software (1.74 or whatever) it is the drive firmware that matters here.

    ukpete -if we cannot get a firmware update for your LO drive player (which was quite likely made before these discs were ever released) then you will need to have an LT drive fitted. This will be chargeable, at around £100 inc VAT and return freight (a somewhat concessionary price I must add). If you want that done then we'll happily do it - but you must pay us and then send the bill to the record comapny concerned - it is absolutely their fault.

    Considered comments from the field are welcome !!!

    John Dawson (Arcam)
     
  11. baileych

    baileych
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    169
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +1
    Hi, am I being incredibly stupid? I don't understand the point of copy protected CDs.

    Presumable these CDs have to play on something, like an Arcam DV88 with an LT drive. (Mines an LO :( - but I haven't got any copy protected discs :). )

    In which case, presumably you can connect the digital output to a consumer CD recorder (or a PC with a digital in like my Creative Audigy Platinum eX card). Frankly, if you're going to make mp3's then if you've got high enough quality analogue inputs then the compression which you're about to apply is probably more of a quality issue than the D-A-D conversion you're about to do.

    Either way, someone with reasonably priced equipment - call him for the sake of argument Mr. Pirate - has a good quality, internet redistributable copy of the orignal 'CD' using nothing more than a 'standard' CD player and a PC. This assumes that he hasn't even tried to do a 'raw' bit copy with error correction turned off on his CD-ROM drive because, cunningly, he has been 'prevented' from playing the CD normally in the drive.

    Take person B - call him for the sake of argument Mr. Loyal-Consumer. Mr. Loyal-Consumer is a busy office worker who pays his taxes and respects the right of artists to be paid for their work.

    Mr. Loyal-Consumer buys another copy of this same 'copy-protected' 'CD'. (Crumbs these quotes are getting out of hand :rolleyes:.) He hasn't read the back of the 'CD' and hasn't noticed the lack of CD logo. (I don't know if anyone has noticed but not many true CDs actually exhibit the logo on their external packaging anyway!) At work he slots it into his CD-ROM drive and pops on his headphones...

    A little while later, having chatted to a colleague (Mr. Up-with-Technology) he learns about the great Clone War between the music publishers and the rebel pirates who attempt to clone their published music. Mr. Up-with-Technology tells Mr. Loyal-Consumer about the website of one Mr. Pirate.

    Mr. Loyal-Consumer is law abiding so convinces himself (rightly or wrongly) that downloading music of which he already owns a 'CD' copy is lawful. How many people like Mr. Loyal-Consumer, once they have learnt of Mr. Pirate's website, will be as scrupulous and not download just a few snippets, maybe whole CDs worth of stuff which they haven't actually bought?

    Charles.
     
  12. lmccauley

    lmccauley
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2000
    Messages:
    3,318
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +216
    The confusion is presumably caused because "CD" to most people just means a shiny, silver, 8(?)cm disk. They aren't concerned about red book, orange book or any other standard - until it doesn't play in their CD player.

    The record companies are taking a shiny, silver disc and writing to it using a new (non) standard - let's call it "scratching the music on with a sharp knife". They're assuming that CD player manufacturers will use time machines and telepathy to realise that the record companies will, at some point in the future, use this "sharp knife" standard and design their players accordingly.

    As someone who works in IT systems integration, it makes me shudder to think that someone would so casually disregard such a long-standing standard, causing consumers so much grief and leaving the blame at the doors of the innocent parties that have continued to follow the standard.

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  13. ukpete

    ukpete
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    John - This is really bad news for anybody who has purchased an older player (I use that term lightly, as mine a not much more than a year old). I sympathise with your position, and I agree that the record companys concerned are the root cause of the problem, but from a customers point of view its very disapointing. The chances of me getting my £100 back from the record company's are very slim, and my £900 investment in a combined DVD/CD player is lookong like a big mistake. Even if I get the drive replaced I'm not confident that in 6 months time I wont hit the problem again when a different variation of copy protection is developed. The reality is that record companys are going to be using it more and more whether we like it or not.

    It is clear that these "CD's" do not comply to the 'standards', but they do work on basic CD players. It is clear that the DV88 is doing something prior to, or during the playing of these CD's to stop them from working, so I could argue that if the DV88 worked as like basic CD player then problem would not be exhibited. I may be taking a very simplistic approach here, but if the DV88 software had 'CD Mode' which could be enabled by the user before inserting a CD which forced the DV88 to act like a basic player and ignore all the cd headers (or whatever the techno bable is) then this would fix the problem. The record companys are not going to produce discs that will not work on all basic cd players, and if you implemeted this 'workaround' you wont have to keep changing your drive firmware every five minutes to support their latest copy protection hack. I would of thought that this would be a relativly simple to implement in software and potentially save yourselvs and customers alot of grief.
     
  14. MarkTaylor

    MarkTaylor
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    4,327
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +665
    I'd say that it is not so much that the DV88 is 'doing something' it is moire that the drive unit which was designed to handle both DVD and CD cannot read a protected 'CD' properly.

    As John said, it isn't their software at fault, but a problem with the drive unit's firmware caused by the non-standard CD's.

    A drive capable of handling a DVD is always going to be a bit different from a simple CD drive, but the problem seems to originate at the drive level so I'm not sure there is much Arcam or others can do by way of a by-pass mode.

    Best we can hope is that the record indusry will settle on a method that suits them so we can at least be sure we are not trying to hit a moving target, but frankly I'm not that hopeful.

    Best thing to do for now is vote with our wallets and not buy anything using these problematic protection methods.

    Mark
     
  15. LunarDave

    LunarDave
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The Natalie Imbuglia cd wouldn't play in my DV88, PC or my car.
    Ironically I found I was able to use NERO cd writing s/w to rip the tracks off the CD and then I was able to burn them back onto a CDR which plays perfectly in all of my cd players.
    So much for copy protection.
    Go figure!

    Dave.
     
  16. jont

    jont
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2002
    Messages:
    3,939
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    near Aylesbury
    Ratings:
    +416
    my dv27 had issues with my partners 'J Lo - remix' cd a couple of weeks ago ... sounds like I was lucky enough to have an LT mechanism, but still needed to upgrade to 1.76 ... plays OK now

    The 'J-Lo' is a sony disc so I don't know if it has the same protection as the Shakira (don't have that one ...)
     
  17. gazzerr

    gazzerr
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2001
    Messages:
    179
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Damascus
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have the same problem with my Marantz. Their advice was to take the CD back as it doesn't conform with the specifications for CD's. I'm sure they are right but it doesn't help me very much and it would seem that the only solution is to buy a dedicated CD player although a major reason for buying the Marantz was the quality of the CD audio.:(
     
  18. John Dawson

    John Dawson
    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2001
    Messages:
    852
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    Ratings:
    +112
    jont - the problem is not with the player software (1.76 or whatever) but with the drive firmware. (Actually it's the stupid discs, not the drive, but you know what I mean!).

    The J-Lo sounds like it is protected with Sony's key2audio. We have a patch in the drives from LT21 onwards and, for the record, just about all DV27s have LT drives so can have this issue resolved relatively easily.

    HTH.

    John Dawson (Arcam)
     
  19. jont

    jont
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2002
    Messages:
    3,939
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    near Aylesbury
    Ratings:
    +416
    John

    Thanks for the clarification - after discussion with Mick (Cox) I did both the s'ware and drive firmware upgrade so that did patch and solve the problem ...

    and now my partners very happy (but don't think the neighbours are too impressed at the murder remixes ;-)
     
  20. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,842
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +5,077
    I've not (yet) encountered a copy protected CD. But I synmpathise wholly with the consumers and hardware manufacturers on this.

    I'd go so far as to accuse the CD manufacturers of the same type of corporate idiocy that brought us regional coding. Corporate idiocy that saves them nothing, has little if any effect on pirates, but inconveniences legitimate consumers.

    1) As a consumer, who has properly bought a CD I have a right to expect it to work properly in whatever CD, DVD, PC player I load it into. This is not being provided by the CD manufacturer.

    2) As a "bootlegger" (no, I am not one) I care not one jot about the quality of my bootlegged product. Indeed, if I did, then I wouldn't sell those DVD "silvers" - you know - the ones mastered from a camcorder-in-a-cinema source. In reality, if I DID encounter a copy protected CD, and if I DID want to rip it off, I'd do it by connecting my Walkman's analog output into my sound card and resampling the sound output. In fact, if I did do this, I'd venture to say that only a few consumers would even notice the difference. And, of the consumers that buy their stuff from street traders, questionable websites and so on, the proportion of those that would notice is probably zero.

    So, CD manufacturers - why are you doing this? The answer can only be corporate idiocy.
     
  21. baileych

    baileych
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Messages:
    169
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +1
    Having thought quite hard about this I have a more depressing theory about why this is happening.

    I think that the music publishing industry is trying to kill off the CD as a music format. It's quality is too high and it doesn't have proper 'Digital Rights(?) Management' in the actual format. As such the red book CD format is a pain for the music industry. They cannot stop people ripping it, they cannot trace the source of the ripped tracks.

    By deliberately reducing the compatibility and quality of the 'CD' format the music pubishers are not hoping to enforce their digital 'rights'. As shown by this thread this approach is a failure anyway. What they are hoping to do is drive quality appreciating, and more importantly, high spending consumers away from the CD format because the music industry are only producing dubious quality 'CDs'. They are hoping that people like this will be forced onto the DVD-Audio or similar band wagons. This format does have some amount of 'Digital Rights Management' although I must confess to being ignorant of the details.

    Combine this with M$ software on your PC and they can control the quality of anything you want to rip from your DVD-Audio drive and also rat on you if your PC (traced by install id of your playback software) turns out to have ripped some music which is doing the rounds on the internet.

    This represents publisher's Nirvana. Your paying more for your music (DVD-A or similar will be more expensive than CDs and anyway normal 'CDs' would be low quality and poorly compatible now). They also have the posibility of tracing any music which you rip if you prove to be a major revenue destroyer (or pirate as they're sometimes called).

    :( I hoped that the end of the world was further away.

    Charles.
     
  22. Seany boy!!!

    Seany boy!!!
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Even if you buy a stand alone player, you may well still have problems. It's the disc, it's the disc, it's the disc. Blame them, not arcam or anybody else.
     
  23. ukpete

    ukpete
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The reality is that these discs are here now and will probably be more and more common in the near future. Twenty people moaning about disk formats on a forum and refusing to buy these discs is'nt going to sway the record companies one inch. I'm going to write to watchdog and see if they can generate some awareness, bit I doubt it will change anything. I suggest others do the same.

    In the mean time, I really dont wont a 4 foot hifi stack, but I have no real option, so I'm off to dig out my 15 year old Technics CD player from the loft. I know for sure that one will work. Looks like the ARCAM DVD/CD approach may of been a waist of money.

    Of course, ARCAM could really take this opportunity to demonstrate what a dynamic customer focused company they really are by coming up with a free fix for all of their machines (even if its not their fault).:) what a novel appraoch that would be, One can only hope.
     
  24. bishman

    bishman
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2001
    Messages:
    4,902
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    hertford
    Ratings:
    +172
    I think it is expecting too much of Arcam to supply a free upgrade to all of their affected customers. After all, it is not their fault. I personally have not yet encountered one of the copy protected CD's, or maybe I might feel differently.

    Take consolation in the fact that you still have a mighty fine DVD player.
     
  25. Seany boy!!!

    Seany boy!!!
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    It is not just because yours is also a dvd player. It may well happen in what ever you replace it with. They are making discs that they know have problems on CD players, never mind dvd players. The format is not ready. so don't buy the disc simple; and when they don't sell,you bet your life they will have a rethink! You are blaming the wrong guy's, you need to redirect your anger. I just don't get the way your complaining at arcam:confused: They have have not broken from the red-book standard, without telling you about it. They will not be bought in great numbers once people become more aware that they are not CD's, and may not work in their players. It is they, not the consumers & manufacture's, who are at fault, and we cannot dance to their tune (pardon the pun) It will not replace CD. Return the disc. That is the real, and best protest you can make.
     
  26. encaser

    encaser
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Messages:
    1,566
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Suffolk/Essex
    Ratings:
    +112
    At present I have some BOUGHT cds which I can't play in my cd rom because of copy protection, the irony being that I can both MP3 them or copy them direct with software. I'm not justifying piracy but it's no wonder people get jacked off with companys who pull these tactics and so make available stuff to others in anger/protest or whatever - esp. angsty teens. It'll all become a moot point soon any way as hackers will set about the task of cracking this protection format as with everything thrown their way to date. If memory serves it was a 15yr old kid who broke the last. What will people choose, to download something they can convert to a cd playable source or buy a new unit in the hope that'll be ok, hum?
    What's also annoying is how consumers are expected to scan the small print on every disc sheet before purchase in case of getting caught out. If record shops go with this how long before they refuse to give money back or force exchanges owing to 'consumer neglect'?
    Hopefully as Sean sais consumer annoyance will faulter sales and this restriction of freedom, to play bought goods on which ever source you have or choose.
     
  27. ukpete

    ukpete
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I don’t want to turn this into an ARCAM bashing post, but let me explain why I'm digging at Arcam a bit on this issue.

    I agree with everybody that the root cause of this problem is the discs, but, at £900 the DV88 is a relatively expensive piece of kit from a premium brand manufacturer. The hardware costs alone do not justify the price tag, so part of the high price we pay is for Arcams support/development to resolve any issues (hence the ability to do software & drive firmware upgrades). If I didn’t want good quality support or any of the 'future proofing' that Arcam talk about, I would of purchased a much cheaper player.

    For this specific problem, the firmware on the LT drive units already contains a fix, so lets not pretend Arcam have no intention of ever supporting these discs, or need to spend any money to debug and resolve the problem. The reason why they expect the owners of old players to pay £100 to upgrade their drives is simply because they (or probably more accurately their supplier) changed the drive type and stopped developing/supporting the firmware on the old LO drives. Bear in mind that the drive unit is an integral part of the player and not a separate device, so as a customer I shouldn’t have to worry about what type of drive my player is fitted with. If Arcam change the internal specification of their machines (for whatever reason), they still have an obligation to their customers to support the old specification. Their internal software/firmware control procedures should ensure that If any patch is made to the LT drive firmware, it should also be made on the LO drive firmware (assuming its not drive specific). This would mean that they would already have a firmware upgrade available for ALL their drives. Passing the cost of an expensive Hardware upgrade back onto their customers is not acceptable, especially when they already have a firmware fix already incorporated in the LT drive. There solution to this problem should be a firmware upgrade for the LO drives.

    I know most of you are still going to say its unreasonable to expect Arcam to fix this :), but my personal opinion is that any company that positions itself as a premium product manufacturer should make every effort to keep it customers happy.
     
  28. MarkTaylor

    MarkTaylor
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    4,327
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +665
    I can understand your frustration, but I suspect that the firmware revisions on the drive unit are outside of Arcam's direct control.

    The offer of an upgrade at a concessionary price to fix a problem that has nothing to do with Arcam is evidence of the quality of back-up that they are willing to provide.

    It is not clear at present if it is even possible to patch the firmware on the older drives to read the problem disks.

    Arcam's obligations extend to ensuring that DVD and CD's work, these copy protected disks are not CD's but Arcam are still doing what they can to get their customers able to play them, I see that as evidence of good service.

    For some it is a firmware upgrade, for others a replacement drive, and I do understand the frustration for those faced with a cost they didn't budget for, but I'm going to struggle to blame Arcam for the problem.

    Predictable response I guess, and I don't even own an Arcam player :) (yet)

    Mark
     
  29. ukpete

    ukpete
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Mark,,would you like to buy my one, it works perfectly - honest. :D
     
  30. MarkTaylor

    MarkTaylor
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    4,327
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +665
    hehe... I have a black FMJ DV27 on order already :)

    I really wish there was some way to get it through to the record companies that breaking the CD standard isn't the way to go.

    If they continue down this route it is more than likely that it will not just be the slightly older DVD players that encounter problems ...

    Mark
     

Share This Page

Loading...