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DV79 - is it worth the money?

Discussion in 'Arcam Owners' Forum' started by docfeelgood, May 13, 2004.

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  1. docfeelgood

    docfeelgood
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    Hello all.

    Please don't take this post as me criticising the DV79. I have demoed this unit and was fairly impressed all round.

    However, my question is this:

    How can Arcam justify £999 for this piece of technology.

    Both Panasonic and Sony are releasing HDMI based players very soon which will probably retail for around £300 - or less.

    These players will also upscale.

    Don't tell me that the HDMI picture quality from these players will be significantly worse than the Arcam. They will probably use similar or the same chips and software.

    I'm sure the 'build quality' of the Arcam is better.... but the most important aspect is the performance and I'm sure the Panny and Sony will be adequately 'built' and will perform very well.

    I'm also sure that the CD replay is better on the Arcam.... but is it really £700 better ?

    I think the price points that the older 'last generation' Arcams can be picked up for is closer to the mark.

    From my demo and what I know is coming from Sony/JVC/Panasonic etc... I believe a more realistic and fair price tag for the DV79 is about £599.

    I think we pay too much for the 'Arcam' name when they release a new product.

    Just my opinion :)

    I'd be interested to hear your comments on this one.

    best regards
    :)
    Doc
     
  2. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Seems fairly priced to me
     
  3. docfeelgood

    docfeelgood
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  4. Cameron

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    you also get other things though - good after sales service, software updates and buying something british - oh and it looks nice as well.

    Theres more to a dvd player than mere specs.

    CaM
     
  5. docfeelgood

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    Thanks for the reply Cameron.

    I agree... the after sales is good and it's good to support the British industry.

    However, is this value for money?

    Can anyone out there prove to me from a technical performance standpoint that this machine will be significantly better in terms of AV and audio performance than Panasonics, Sonys (and Denons)....... and yes I know their not out yet so it is very difficult to compare (impossible in fact).

    Arcam is setting a price point on this machine which is saying to me that 'We think that this machine is significantly better than the Sony and the Panasonic machines etc...'

    Is it?

    and why?

    Just trying to generate a healthy discussion based on 'value for money'.

    :)

    Doc
     
  6. RaceTripper

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    Specs are generally useless to me when making a purchase decision. I know from experience you can tell little or nothing from them. You have to let your eyes and ears be judge.

    With that said, while Arcam products are pricey (perhaps even more so for me in the U.S.), you get what you pay for with Arcam. Excellent performance, build quality, and support.

    Try getting a software/firmware fix or other support from Sony and that ilk, then you'll discover very quickly why you paid less.

    I have an Alpha 10, a DV88Plus (which I hope to upgrade with the SiI504 PS board), and the new AVR300. So I spent a bit of money for these, but my satisfaction has been well worth it.

    Even if the less expensive Sony and Panasonic units have similar specs to the DV79, I won't be surprised at all if DV79 real world performance blows them out of the water.

    Don't be guided by specs. Look for the features you want, and audition the units so that you can see and hear what's best.

    And I don't even mind supporting the British economy. :)
     
  7. Cameron

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    You could say the say about anything - cars, furntiute, clothes...whatever takes your fancy.

    There is always something cheaper out there that looks like the real thing - just like a pair of 'oakleys' I got in thailand for a £1.

    I also think it is pointless discussing a product as being better value for money before it has even come out. Products that come out latter on are virtually always better value for money.

    So, rightback at yah on this one docfeelgood - out of the current crop, what product/products that are out there now do you think are much better value than the AV300???

    answer = non that I can think off.

    CaM
     
  8. docfeelgood

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    Thx for the replies :)

    Cameron..... I don't think this is a pointless discussion.


    I guess a few people are in the same boat as me - i.e. they are looking at something like the DV79 and wondering whether to fork out a grand on it ..... or wait and see how the Sony and Panasonic units perform when they come out.

    I don't no anything about the AVR300... but that was very clever of you... well done ;)

    best regards

    :)

    Doc
     
  9. hemp3

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    Its economy of scale as well, Arcam are a small British Company. Whereas Sony/Panasonic are a huge multi national company. Arcam have to pay for the HDMI licence and is probably as much as Panasonic/Sony paid. If Sony/pany make a million DVD's and Arcam a 1000 then the cost of the Arcam is going to be higher. of course you’re going to say why not join the majority but how many of Sony/pannys guys do you see talking to their customers like John Dawson does. With Arcam you’re buying quality products that are made by passionate people like John ask him about video I have heard he knows more than nay one in the country. With Arcam you get service which is something you wont get with the faceless multinational. Im just going off to play God save the Queen and kiss my Arcam FMJ picture(how is wish it was real).
     
  10. Cameron

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    opps - i meant DV79 ;)

    Anyways, either you can wait for something better to come out (which it always will) or you can purcahse something now that is out.

    I've always felt that far east brands are generally about 30% cheaper than the local ones. If you want cheap then don't buy an arcam.

    ...but I guess its all a matter of taste. To me most far east brands are souless, to others they have all the feautures and flashing lights they could ever want......

    quality vs quanity

    CaM
     
  11. buns

    buns
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    I think you will find that sony/panasonic will very rarely be accused of being xxxxxphile...... arcam on the other hand could easily be described this way. Chances are, if you are debating which one to buy, you should buy the cheap one. One is a dvd player, the other is part of a HT.

    ad
     
  12. warrj

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    docfeelgood wrote:

    I think Arcam stuff is very reasonably priced. I also think its unfair to compare a mid-range Arcam DVD player with low-end mass market product. I bought a 300 quid Pioneer universal player which does SACD, DVD-A and CD. It does what it says on the tin but it doesn't do anything particularly well (which is OK with me - after all it was cheap). I would expect any Arcam DVD player would destroy it on audio.

    We're really talking about different markets here, there's a reason why some DVD players are 29.99 and some are 6K and it's not all to do with brand names.

    As has been mentioned previously on this thread Arcam do really seem to care about their customers and having direct access to John Dawson (as we do) is a luxury which should not be underestimated.

    Regards,

    Jules.
     
  13. SL Boy

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    No-one has mentioned yet the Pioneer 868, an HDMI player thats the same price as the Arcam DV79.

    I have auditioned the 868, superb picture but I was not happy about the sound which is why I am trying to find a dealer West of London with a DV79. So far no luck.
     
  14. hemp3

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    how far west?
     
  15. Nic Rhodes

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    Well an little anacdote. I was speaking to a forum member today as he was in the middle of SDI modding players. He let slip the quality coming out of ARCAM was way better than even some other illustious big UK 'names'.

    We all acknowledge the excellence of Arcam in the Audio department. The video (from above) is actually better than most realise as well.

    For those sad inviduals who have labs to test equipment, the last time I played with an Arcam, the quality of circuit design / layout performance was about as good as I have seen in a player. I own a Tag DVD32R amongst other palyers.

    The Pioneer is an interesting machine. Interlaced output is great. Progressive scan is 'less hot'. DVD / DVD A sound is very good. SACD is an 'add on'. Compare that with an almost top flight deinterlacer in the Vadis V in 79, almost top flight deinterlacing and no compromoises in circuit design as it just doesn't try to do SACD. Listen to an even £300 SACD player vs universal and you will know where I come from.

    It looks good. Hacks are 'friendly' to customers and I don't just mean regiom that may prove useful at a later date.

    The bottom line is ARCAM have some great engineers designing their player, the competition is good, they are just better IMHO. He says with oscillascope in hand.
     
  16. X3ELS

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    Why don't you go to a good dealer and get a proper A/B dem of an Arcam DVD player playing back stereo Cd's vs a £500 Sony.

    I would be amazed if you did not hear the difference. I think the DV79 is astoundingly good value for money once you start comparing it to other machines...
     
  17. lowrider

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    I think it is a useless debate, you will have to compare it with the alternatives, and see/hear if you find the differences worth it...

    I have compared Arcam with many others, and the sound is much better, actually I compared my FMJ with TAG and a fully modded TEAC, and the cables made more difference than the players... :eek:

    The image is not as important for me, I have a good but only 32" CRT, but it was at least as good as the other players...
     
  18. Matt Horne

    Matt Horne
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    At the moment.. I would say the best value would be from picking up a DV88+ / DV89 at the amazing prices they are currently going for.. I cannot see any reason to buy the DV79 at the moment until those supplies run out.

    Personally I paid £900 for my DV88 a few years back (nearly 3 I think) I had it upgraded to a DV88+ and I am still very happy with it and have no plans to upgrade. Hell I only got to try out the Prog scan output on the DV88+ in the last week :)

    Sound quality on the Arcam has always set it head and shoulders above all my other various dvd players.

    Matt
     
  19. sticker

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    I've got to agree with Matt for the price that people like Creative Audio are offering the 88+ and the 89 its got to be bargin of the year. Silly money for players that are superb with DVD and CD, both sound & video.

    Also don't underestimate the support of Arcam it is top class and worth paying extra for IMHO

    HTH
    John
     
  20. hemp3

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    It also depends on what you want if you want a dvd into a plasma and thats it full stop i.e. no surround or event to some extent just durround and not stereo then the Japanese products may suffice. I would advacte getting an Arcam simply as its better as you may never spin a cd or dvd-audio in it. If you have a dedicated CD player already then a £500 may do. It depends on what you want I guess. I personally bought the Pio 868 as it was only £600 and i have a CD player and dont own or even want any high res disc.
     
  21. chris

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    You think the 79 is overpriced........
    I payed £1150 for my 89 and at that time i felt that it was about £200-£300 overpriced, but i wanted it.
    Imagine how i felt when just a month later i found i'd spent £450 more than i could have.
    But i am well pleased with it.
    It has the best PQ and SQ of anythink i'd owned in the past.
    Although i have now gone back to a denon 2900 for DVD because of the layer change.
    I now only use the 89 for CD's, as up to now it is the best sounding cd player i have owned.
    Unfortunatly i cannot afford to sell it second hand and buy a dedicated CD player, as i will be losing WAY WAY to much money on it.
    Plus i still use it now and then for video because of the good PQ, which is better than the 2900.
     
  22. SL Boy

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    I have just auditioned the 868 and DV79. Nothing to choose on the picture side but the 79 has far superior sound quality on both CD and DVD Audio. Shall be buying the 79 to go with a 50 inch Pioneer HDE 504 plasma.
     
  23. Plump

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    Nick,
    I compared deinterlaced signals form Vadis and SiL , both on Arcams, and I claim 100% that SiL is somewhat better. I did it at home.
     
  24. docfeelgood

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    Not sure I understand.

    Which player has the Sil?

    cheers

    :)

    Doc
     
  25. RaceTripper

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    My understanding is this: the SiI504 is in the FMJ DV27 series. The DV88, 88 Plus, and 89 can be upgraded with the SiI PS board for improved progressive video and simultaneous interlaced/progressive output. I don't know about the DV78/79.

    Someone from Arcam correct me please if I'm wrong.

    Dean
     
  26. Cameron

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    I have a DV88+ with the Sil504. The Sil504 is better than the Zoran V.

    CaM
     
  27. Matt Horne

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    I'm very happy with the progscan output on my Dv88+, though I am only feeding a 32" crt so I guess its not being pushed....

    Matt
     
  28. Nic Rhodes

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    Yeah I have no doubts the SIL is the best of the current chip. Faroudja does some things well, very well, others less so but it isn't as balanced a performer IMHO. The Vadis V is still pretty good in my book. Sure it not a SIL but it ain't half bad in it's own right plus you can do all these things with it.
     
  29. Plump

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    Yep, but funny enough it was obvious if you know where to look. My wife was trying to see it for 30min and told me you're nuts, all the same
     
  30. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    The three are all pretty good in my book. When you go back 2/3 years and the various option then, some were REALLY bad, nowdays the likes of Vadis V does a damn good job AND it is integrated into the chip with loads of other functions unlike the SIL 504 which is a dedicated chi[p for deinterlacing.
     

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