DV79 and scaling

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by HouseofMu, May 5, 2004.

  1. HouseofMu

    HouseofMu
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    ... or not, as it's become apparent from Arcams online specs.

    If I were to connect the DV79 HDMI socket to an IF7200/Tosh MT8 DVI port, using a 576p signal, am I right in thinking that the pj will do the scaling to 720p ?
    Does having the scaling done at the pj end introduce an extra D/A conversion ?

    Why would Arcam leave out the scaler, to save money (its already dearer than its direct rival the Pioneer 868) or doesn't it make any pq difference to have the pj do the scaling on a 576p signal ?

    So, what should be the best
    a) 868; Deinterlaced & Scaled to 720p o/p HDMI
    b) DV79; Deinterlaced 576p o/p via HDMI, scaled to 720p in pj.

    It would be nice to hear from someone whos had the chance to compare players ?

    cheers

    neil.
     
  2. clancol

    clancol
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    That the $1,000000 question.
    Arcam will clame that the pure digital hdmi picture, through it's dv79 will give better performance than the 868, via hdmi scaled.

    I have seen many dvd players that are interlaced, that are better than progresive players.
    And i have seen dvi/hdmi player that are no better than a componant player. so i recon it's possible that a non internaly scaled picture can beat a scaled one.

    I myself have faith that the pure hdmi image of the dv79 will be as good as if not better than the 868 scaled image.
    plus you get the stonking musical ability of the 79, the fact that it's better looking than the pig 868, and the adition of the audio delay.
    It's on my list
     
  3. ian_guinan

    ian_guinan
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    I've been thinking about this one too, as I like the sound of the dv79.

    I'm hoping that the dv79 will allow some other resolutions over HDMI via a hidden menu, as if it could output 720p it would then not require any scaling in the MT8. We'd then have to hope that the Zoran chipset did a good enough job of both deinterlacing and scaling...not sure if it can do this...

    The 79s specs say that it can ouput 480i and 576i over hdmi and this would be the ideal (have the signal come straight off the disk digitally and let the MT8 do all the scaling and deinterlacing in the digital domain by Faroudja). I posed this question to Bob Williams (the designer of the 7200) on AVS and he stated the projector could not accept interlaced 480 and 576 over DVI (seems to be a limitation of DVI as against HDMI regarding interlaced signals).

    Present signal path would be;

    DV79
    signal from DVD 480i or 576i
    deinterlacing by Zoran Vaddis V in player to 480p or 576p
    digital output to projector
    MT8
    scaling by projector scaler to 720p from 480p or 576p

    What you are basically gambling on is how good the Zoran chips are at deinterlacing. Only a demo will tell and I mean to try and get my hands on one to try out as soon as possible.

    Ian Guinan

    AVS Arcam DV79 and Infocus 7200 thread
     
  4. HouseofMu

    HouseofMu
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    I can't see the whole 'scaling' process being kept as a hidden feature on the DV79, so as you say - a prog. signal to pj is the only option there.

    I'm was unsure if scaling in the pj would add an extra D/A conversion before scalling - whereas an inplayer scaling would not ? Can anyone throw any light on this?

    Assuming the above is OK, it would be down to the quality of deinterlacers between the two players.

    We need somebody to report a 868 - DV79 (using HDMI) head - to head - assuming its now shipping ???

    neil.

    PS. Ian, have you updated your MT8 firmware to the new v3.7 yet ?
     
  5. ian_guinan

    ian_guinan
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    Just had a look on the Zoran website and you are correct..the Vaddis 5 has no scaling abilities (unlike the Sigma chipsets used in a few of the common DVI out players).

    Too bad... I will still try one out if I can arrange a demo.

    Ian Guinan

    p.s. just waiting for a Tosh version of 3.7 of course! ;)
     
  6. HouseofMu

    HouseofMu
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    Ian,
    Let us know how you get on with the demo's

    And I'll be interested in a copy of the Tosh firmware if you manage to source it? btw, are you tempted by the slightly updated IF7205, personally I'm waiting to skip a couple of generations before replacing, might be able to spot some real advances that way.

    Can any of the resident experts explain whats happening to the signal if its scaled in the pj, in terms of when it gets D/A converted etc?

    cheers
    n.
     
  7. HouseofMu

    HouseofMu
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    ian, you have PM
     
  8. ian_guinan

    ian_guinan
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    Hah! Jus PM'd you pretty much the same question about the 7205!

    THis really belongs in 'projectors' but I think it could offer a much quieter projector and even better blacks....whether that would be worth the upgrade cost is very much open to question.

    In the interests of research I rang Tosh to ask when the MT800 (the 7205 clone) would be out.....got no further than them saying 'call back in June'.

    My understanding from Bob Williams is that digital video from DVI goes digitally to the scaler with no extra D/A conversion...could be I've misunderstood though.

    Will post if I get a DV79 demo.

    Ian Guinan
     
  9. gandley

    gandley
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    With a DLP pj scaling will be in the digital domain for HDMI and DVI, so this wont be a an issue.

    the PJs probaly wont recieve an interlaced signal via HDMI though. so you will need to send a progressive signal.

    (hence you can add a quality scaler as long as the dvd players HDMI output will send an interlaced signal.)

    personaly i think the playing field in terms off image quality is more or less leveled with all the DVI or HDMI decks.
    its realy more down to the deinterlacing used and how well pal and NTSC is handled...ie is pal done in proper 50hz as opposed to forced 60hz.(if not then judder, judder)
     
  10. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    More excellent advice from gandley.
     
  11. gandley

    gandley
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    Thankyou, I`ll be here all week:laugh:
     
  12. HouseofMu

    HouseofMu
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    gandley, (if you're still here ;)

    Can I just ask you to clear someting up with regards to the scaler;

    I've no intention of adding an external scaler, so will the projector still scale when given a progressive signal ?
    I understand the pj (tosh MT8) won't accept an interlaced signal on its DVI port anyway.

    So, signal chain would be;
    DVD player (deinterlaced/unscaled/progressive via HDMI) -> PJ (DVI using adapter) then scaled (still in the digital domain)

    Is that right?

    Is anyone aware of any 868 to DV79 (deinterlacer) comparisons yet ?

    thanks

    neil.
     
  13. Jack the lad

    Jack the lad
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    These are to 2 DVD players I have narrowed it down to. I'm going to go a a Sony HS20.

    It would be interesting to have a comparrison :)
     
  14. gandley

    gandley
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    Yes the PJ will scale to its native resolution, i don`t know what the toshiba`s is, but the progressive signal will go to that res
     
  15. friend

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    From what i here it is impossible to manage to lock the 868 via hdmi with infocus and toshiba models.
    Has anyone tried it sucessfully ?
    What about the Arcam ?
     
  16. HouseofMu

    HouseofMu
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    Have you got a link to a thread that discusses such problems ?

    There has been a new firmware (v3.7) for these pj, maybe thats resolved any issues?
     
  17. friend

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