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DV79 and SACD

Discussion in 'Arcam Owners' Forum' started by Barend, Aug 18, 2004.

  1. Barend

    Barend
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    May I humbly suggest Arcam adds SACD on the double?
    The industry is more and more leaning to SACD and it looks DVDA is the losing team here...like the Dutch team that plays beautiful soccer but can't win...

    IMO SACD will always be in a niche, as most people ask "Does it play in the car, don't care how it sounds" but look at the competition, it's all multiformat now- very few offer DVDA as sole 5.1 option...
    And for gawds sake speak to Sony/Philips or Denon about i-link cq denonlink...or brew your own Firewire mix!

    Good Luck!
    Barend (currently listening thru the AVR300 to an old record of Bach's Double Cembale Concerto #1, man it rocks compared to a recent cd I heard) :)
     
  2. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I am afraid I would want the opposite. I don't want a fine player like the 79 being compromised by SACD which requires totally different (and incompatible) electronics to be added. Of all the universal (small u) players around only a handful are not seriously compromised in sound quality terms by the addition of SACD and none of them are in the 79 price bractet. Far better to buy a SACD player and keep the 79 as a premium bit of kit. No dumbing down please, we have that already with the competition
     
  3. RaceTripper

    RaceTripper
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    I agree with that.

    Arcam has a whitepaper on their web site explaining why they don't do SACD. In a nutshell, it says supporting SACD with additional hardware and technical requirements would result in compromisng quality. Arcam doesn't want to be in the "Jack of all trades, master of none" fold that characterizes most of the "universal" players.

    Dean
     
  4. gregeas

    gregeas
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    I think the lull in DVD-A releases is due to the imminent roll-out of Dual Disks. With luck this fall we'll start seeing titles again.

    I've bought every DVD-A disk I want, and only have like eight. They do sound good, however.
     
  5. Barend

    Barend
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    Well if Arcam said so it doesn't have to be the gospel...
    Of course I read the text, and I disagree heartily, as I disagreed on their paper about the power ratings of the avr-300, specifying at 1 kHz only...
    There's no technically backed reason why a few added Sony chips should be bad for the sound.
    They want you to believe that because they don't want to invest in good switching and screening, nor pay the Sony/Philips licensing dough.
    My Denon 2900 and Pioneer DV868 both sound as good in DVDA and in SACD modes.
    I prefer my CD82t for stereo though, and it does sound mighty majestic thru my AVR300.
    I like Arcam gear, but I'm not eating everything they dish up!
    Don't be a parrot!
    Barend
     
  6. Shaka

    Shaka
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    To add my two pennies worth ... I was told an interesting story by local dealer.
    (I cannot vouch for it's truthfulness, only relaying as I heard it)
    He said one of their boys attended a demo hosted by Arcam where they played a CD on the Arcam DV79 and another copy of the same CD on the Denon-2900. The listeners were asked which one sounded the best. Everyone said it sounded better on the DV79. They were then told that the CD was actually a hybrid SACD/CD disc and that while DV79 was playing the CD layer, the Denon was actually playing the SACD layer.
     
  7. General Skanky

    General Skanky
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    Interesting.:)
     
  8. Barend

    Barend
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    This doesn't prove much for different reasons.
    First a full report would be interesting of the meeting, all else is hearsay.
    Second:
    Got cd, sacd-2ch, sacd-6ch and dvd-a discs of any of the three varieties good-soso-bad.
    Even got the same music in cd (excellent) AND in sacd (worse).
    And I have a few dedicated 2-ch sacd discs and the same in normal cd, where the difference was truly remarkable...
    I might add that sacd tends to be slightly underbassed and dvda a bit overplayfully steered. Even one classical disc where I had to sit next to the big drums, blimey...would've been nice to have Norah Jones on my lap though, but she's right up front in the middle - duh !
    Like to know what disks they played at Arcam...
    Barend
     
  9. Barend

    Barend
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    Guy,
    Your reply is very inspired though...errr...a bit shortish- and quite heartwarming to all involved! :D
    (just pulling your leg)
    Barend :)
     
  10. General Skanky

    General Skanky
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    I'm actually quite interested in what you have to say.

    I admit to not having either DVD-A or SACD and seeing what you have to say is educational.

    I know there are fans of both formats and will hopefully flesh this one out a bit on technical grounds, because as you say, we do tend to take what Arcam say to be gospel. Refreshing to find a rebel in the ranks.:)

    However, how important it really is in the grand scheme of things, is my real query as DVD-A and SACD are far too 'niche' to make a great difference to me at the moment.

    As for the future, who knows?
     
  11. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    This is the most telling statement in this thread for me. In an ideal world we'd have a player to do each disc but whilst both formats are under represented a universal with the accepted compromises in it at least allows you to wring the most out of both of them. As time progresses you have two options- if one format "wins"- go back to a one player per disc approach or if both formats multiply greatly, you can buy units to suit.
    Just my thoughts, Like the General I can't be having with either format. If I want to listen to them, I do so at work.
     
  12. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Arcam may have said it as well but if you look around a little further you may well find a few of us have been saying this for a LONG time, even on this site. I don't need technical paper from Arcam to convince me, as some one who has played with digital design for a number of years, I have found it out for myself, the hard way.

    Yes there is, if you actually put the 79 and other similar recent ARCAM players on the scope you will find that they have some of the best sorted out digital electronics in the business, the fact that they are doing this at these prices is incredible imho. Stick any of the competing universal players through a similar system and you will know why these Arcams are so good. It is easy to see and hear.


    To compare these modes you will need a performance where PCM and DSD have been recorded simultaneaously to DVD A and SACD. I know for sure one of these discs exists, possibly 2. If you look at this site you will find a review from an old contributors comparing these. Any other disc comparisons between DVD (A) and SACD are meaningless, just like CD vs SACD comparisons (hybrids) otherwise you are comparing apples with oranges. It makes an interesting ‘insight' into these players for all who have performed this operation however, well worth doing. Universal, vs dedicated SACD / DVD A. It really puts things into perspective I think and crystalises the thinking on the issue for all those who have spent time doing it.

    Re both sound good? Well I would hope universal players sound decent with PCM based technologies, as this is the technolgy they are more based on. Some make a decent stab, but comparing these universal player with even old Arcams shows up their PCM (CD) performance, comparing them to stand alone Sony SACD players (<£300) shows similar issues wrt SACD sound. Stick a 79 into the equation and things are somewhat different re CD / DVD sound.

    What these players do really well is convenience, everything in one box. At this they are really good but are still far from universal. For starters they rarely play my RAM discs. They have never made convincing arguments re sound or universality to me. Pleasant may be, more convenient yes and getting better all the time certainly but still a way to go, hence the regular changes every few months

    I have never been called a Parrot before, in fact I have given Arcam more than the odd nudge. I always thought I was quite independent, but Parrot, are you sure? The bottom line is the 79 is the current DVD player to beat and it looks like it best competition is likely to come from another Arcam player! The competition have some catching up to do. This is because Arcam stuck with getting the best from a DVD / CD platform used for the 79. If it sucked, I would say so.
     

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