Dual Processor Motherboard

AMCross

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Is the dual processor motherboard different from the single processor or are ALL units the same but have different levels of plugs built into the board to accomodate Dab,7.1 EX etc


Put more clearly if you bought the following new now would the SP and DP have the same motherboard
 
Hi, the AV32R's motherboard has changed several times during its initial launch in 1999. The AV32R DP isn't just the AV32R SP's motherboard plus a Dual Processor Board. The more recent a motherboard the easier the conversion from SP to DP. In actual fact there have been sound quality improvements, subtle but real, over the years, mainly by better ground planes. In addition there was a significant step forward through the 192kHz DACs and of course the DP software. I hope this helps and hasn't confused more.
 
Dr Udo Zucker said:
In actual fact there have been sound quality improvements, subtle but real, over the years
Many people claimed this , nice to hear someone finally confirms the fact.

This also mean that new DP has subtle advantages over upgraded DP.

For people reading, please also note that factory calibration can also bring subtle advantages if done into details.
 
I was asking myself the same question:

Is there a (slight) sound difference between a totaly altered and upgraded unit from the early day's and a brand new one?

If that's the case, it's perhaps a wise idea to sell the 'old' unit and buy a new one instead of upgrading..... :confused:

Martin
 
Thanks udo,

What happened to all those old motherboards used on the AV32R to AV192R upgrade where a customer paid the fee to get a newer board.

This is why i have also asked the question why spend so much time and money updating a really old revision pcb to the latest.
IAG should now give us the option of purchasing a newer board

"The AV32R DP isn't just the AV32R SP's motherboard plus a Dual Processor Board. "


So are there now Two types of motherboard a Version for Dual Processor AV32R and AV192R and a Version for the AV32R bp 192

And for anyone who has not seen a Tag Mclaren motherboard good luck working out the revision its not as clear as my Arcam equipement
 
Hi, let me clarify things a little more: the motherboards of AV32R SP, AV32R DP and AV192R start as the very same bare boards, but are then differently populated (with electronics) in order to fit their final target platform. The same can be done afterwards 9i.e. from populated boards), hence you can convert between these products, but it's more cost-effective when done from the bare boards (as no unnecessary components need to be removed). This is the case for new boards.
Old motherboards require (partially) significant modification to get them to the upgraded stage, say when upgrading from SP->DP or AV192R. Electrically the result will be very similar between an upgraded and a new board, so an upgraded processor, say AV32R DP, will sound very much the same as an AV32R DP made from brand new parts.
The improvement of boards (over time) results in subtle sound quality improvements within a product, i.e. an AV32R SP from 2004 will sound better than an AV32R from 1999.

In case new motherboards were requested, the removed boards are scrapped, as there is really nothing one could do with these old generation boards.

There have been, if memory serves me well, 6 different motherboards since 1999.
 
Dr Udo Zucker said:
Electrically the result will be very similar between an upgraded and a new board, so an upgraded processor, say AV32R DP, will sound very much the same as an AV32R DP made from brand new parts.

Thanks Udo,

I was wondering this because my AV32R is from the older generation (sn.....00066) and after the DAC upgrade I saw new wiring soldered on the board (with some other changes). When I looked under the hood of a newer unit (same version) things where different. The changes seemed integrated in the board now.
I can imagion that this extra wiring in stead of motherboard-integration can be audible. Glad this isn't (much) the case.

Martin
 
Udo thanks for your informative posts.


Obviously whenTag Mclaren designed these motherboards they were not thinking of Dab Installs,5.1 Bypass,Dual processor etc.

So the original motherboard was quite empty with regard to sockets to accomadate new boards. Say Revision 1

Later boards included plugs to allow first the dab pcb Say revision 2

Again a new adaptor point was needed to allow the 5.1 Bypass Say revision 3

And latest board should have all these connector already on the board to allow updates.

Again i know that we can send our units into Tag/Iag to have the motherboard adapted quite crudely in some instances to access these hardware option.

So i was quite surprised to purchase a mere 16 month old AV32R 5.1 BP 192 and find that the points to connect these options are there on the board BUT no sockets have been soldered on to the main board so my unit needs to go back to have this mended @£50-£60 per hour.A job which should take minutes will now take a lot longer IAG clain 2/3 weeks Now i am not knocking Tag/Iag but surely this cost cutting is quite amasing considering the savings made at manufacture.

Again can you clear up the following picture is the dual processor board where it is shown in the picture(canot attach toooo large)

But is the dual sharcs next to the bypass and 7.1EX board on the right as you look at the unit from the front.As the original picture shows the dual sharcs where the dab unit fits
 
It's a bit strange that you talk about connectors as when I sent my AV32r back for a repair it had a connector on the main board with a smaller board plugged into it (just behind the front of the unit in the middle), but when I got it back it had neither the connector or (obviously) the smaller board that was plugged into that.

Can anyone explain this to me ??

Cheers,
Rich.
 
Assuming the thing worked as expected then:-

Probably changed the motherboard :D
It is easier than complex fault finding and might even be cost effective if time is at a premium for the guys with the hot sticks....
 
I thought that but I was just a bit concerned that I'd lost a board.

I take it they had just incorporated the little board onto a newer motherboard.

Can anyone confirm that ??
 
Rad was your AV32R a early unit with two sharcs on the daughter board and when it went for repair like grahamMG said that they probably changed it for a newer type with the one correct sharc that worked
 
I think that's exactly what happened as mine was a very early one.

I wasn't that bothered as it sounds great to me, I'm just a bit nosey as to what's inside it :D
 
Consider that you have done well as it is now far easier to upgrade to DP should you wish (and cheaper), our original "dual sharc" (1999) vintage would have been such a bitch to upgrade to "new" dual sharc and any one of the 400 or so things that needed to be done to complete the upgrade could have been a reliability issue, we simply bought a new DP and retired the original SP (DP). One interesting thing to note is that the early dual sharc jobs actually had more processing power than the later single chip, I'm not saying it sounded better though! I now put on my flame proof suit and count the hours until I go on holiday! I wonder how antagonistic or controversial I can be in the next 48 hours :D
 
Graham,

What do you mean that latest DPs have Single Processor upgrade ? Do you know what version of Shark is that ?

Here is the full list of them:
http://www.analog.com/IST/SelectionTableProcessors/?selection_table_id=67


I remember Dr Udo takling about that after the DP upgrade, av32r is effectively 3 processor machine. Am I right about this ?

regards
Darko
 
Hi,

The original AV32R's had 2x21065 (rev0.2) fitted, one on the main PCB & one on a daughter PCB - these can be identified by the daughter PCB, visible through the vents, and the SHARC having "ADSP-21065L" & "-0.2" printed on it (amongst other codes).

This was updated to 1x21065 (rev0.3) fitted to the main PCB, which can be identified by the lack of daughter PCB visible through the vents and the SHARC which you can see having "ADSP-21065L" & "-0.3" printed on it (amongst other codes).

The dual processor model adds 2x21161 SHARCs on a daughter PCB to the 1x21065 (rev0.3) SHARC, so the AV32R-DP is actually a 3-SHARC machine ;)

HTH...
 
Hiya.
I've confused you...... :rotfl:

I'll try to explain:-

Early AV32R's had dual sharc's (1999) due to the short supply of the newer single Sharc that eventually went into all AV32R SP (single processor models)

These motherboards are the most difficult and time consuming to fix/upgrade, hence many I believe that go back for repair might have the board swapped out as the most economic repair.

Later SP models are far easier (reletively) to upgrade to the new Dual Sharc AV32R/DP, to the customer it doesn't matter a toss which one you have as you end up with the right thing after upgrade, it does matter to the bloke with the soldering iron (hot stick) though ;)

The latest Dual Sharc AV32R's do indeed have three Sharc chips, I believe the original single sharc is retained and the new faster, more powerful pair added for the main duties but I'm sure Steve will put me right on that one.

The bit about the original "dual sharc" (1999 vintage) having more MIP's than the later true SP AV32R is true, I'm not saying that it was better though.
 
I think Mr Hamster Of the Tax knows a thing or two about this subject considering he stuck the DSP on there in the first place! :) ... or was it that cat...

2 x 21065L's rev0.2 vs 1 x 21065L rev0.3 - Hmmm, now it all depends what you're doing. Due to "features" in the .2's on some operations a single .3 is far faster than two .2's. On sheer number crunching two .2's are faster than one .3 but in an AVP you're doing number crunching and throwing large lumps of data around. That should confuse the issue quite nicely!
 
Like I said, I didn't say it was better. Two things (well three actually) made a large improvement over the years.

192kHz DAC's (with CD's especially)
The current Dual Sharc
Steve's bug fixing ;)

The first two are the only things that improved the sound audiably (and worth paying for)

The third was a nice treat and free of course........ :smashin:
 

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