Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Steve Withers, Mar 31, 2015.
DTS:X has been launched
DTS:X - Raising The Bar In Immersive Sound | DTS
That's according to DTS, I'm not sure any of those manufacturers have officially announced anything themselves. Besides that's hardly the point of the story but I'll add the rest of the names in.
Thanks for the info, perhaps with that in mind I'll wait a bit longer before ordering my receiver (SR7009), just in case something else comes along.
Yes, it's better late than never but nether the less that's annoying.
I believe Mulder & Scully are getting back together..... I am sure they will be able to sort out this mysterious 'X' business.
Finally!!!!!!! Can start deciding on which amp to buy now on 9th April!!
And then where to put the speakers... ?
Yeah I was going to replace my old Onkyo with a new Marantz Atmos amp there a few months ago, but decided not to. Stupid to jump in when the current main audio format supplier for all HD discs hasn't shown their cards yet...
Me too...but I'm thinking 9th April 2016, though I might put the speakers up before then once I know where they are suppose to go for DTS:X and if there is a suitable compromise to use the same speakers/locations for Atmos/Auro 3D.
Bleh. All this talk of immersive audio everywhere is getting to me.
Just like the constant babble of 3D home viewing did. Flop.
The amount of people able to install speakers the way that is actually recommend is diminishingly small. I highly doubt any of these formats stand a chance of becomig nearly as widespread as 5.1 is today. After all most folks interested in home theater don't have the luxury of a dedicated room. If that was the case it might be a different scenario.
Doesn't mean I don't believe in the benefits of immersive audio. But to me it only makes sense in a dedicated room and at the local theater than in the majority of "normal" homes.
Personally I don't want more channels, I want higher quality.
Rant over. Moving on.
I'm looking forward to the announcement of a centre-rear-shin-height track, and the discussion as to whether or not we need two centre-rear-shin speakers, and whether they need to be stereo, or if dual-mono will suffice.
The chances of Dolby and DTS agreeing are, I would imagine, slim.
Maybe a dedicated discrete below-the-waist speaker channel to bring the term "talking b*llocks" into the 21st century?
They could then expand upon this with a rear below-the-waist channal for extracts where people are talking out of their A holes?
You'll also need another speaker down at floor level behind the screen for the voice of dog channel. It would need some explaining if or when the voice of dog channel gets output via the rear below-the-waist speakers. The squeaky toy sounds coming from the A hole speakers can not be explained away easily. Ask anyone at your local A&E department about patients they've had and incidents involving Barbie dolls!
The thing is even after how many years of 5.1 being available, I don't know anyone in my entire large family or circle of friends apart from me who actually has an old Dolby Digital 5.1 speaker setup in their house, never mind the newer DTS-HD or TrueHD capable amps or next-gen Atmos or DTS-X!!
From my experience normal people have extremely low standards or interest in quality - most people are happy with low bitrate stereo pirate movie downloads or TV (SD quality) even and my pet hate the soundbar is as far as they will go.
Surround sound is extremely far from mainstream!
I think Audioholics did some research into this with their membership which showed that even in the US where rooms are a lot bigger than here in the UK that 5.1 is still the predominant configuration. 7.1 didn't really catch on and overtake 5.1 so why should Atmos, DTS:X or any other new format that requires more than a 5.1 configuration? The only real reason for the newer HD formats taking hold is the fact that they didn't require more speakers or new layout configurations. The new object orientated formats do not make such a transition possible and it will make the new formats more a niche high end aspiration than a universally achievable reality.
I wasn't talking 'mainstream', I was only referring to those with home theaters Then again, to some a soundbar counts as a "home theater" lol.
I knew a dyslexic insomniac agnostic who couldn't get to sleep at night because he couldn't figure out whether or not there was a dog.
I also knew a dyslexic diabolist who spent 5 years worshipping Santa.
I'm here all week.
Lest this become an anti-height channel love-in, I suppose this is only aimed at people with dedicated rooms.
Oh, and it's home CINEMA, we're not Americans yet.
And I suppose, whilst cutting holes in ceilings isn't going to be SWMBO-friendly, I'd guess that swapping your front L/R and rears in a 5.1 system for up-firing models (to make it 5.1.4) will be met with loss hostility by SWMBO than an extra pair of rears for upgrading to 7.1.
So, like you, I can't see it catching on for most of us. But then again, I suppose it's not aimed at most of us.
I'm with you on this Steve, since the last thing I want to do with my pristine plastered ceiling is to cut holes in it.
However, I saw a thread by Gary 71 in the DIY section with a very neat all round pelmet which has inspired me as a plan to hide all but my front left/right speakers. With down lighters and concealed lighting I feel it would add to my living room even ignoring any speakers (and my projector) hidden in it. My intention being to cover the pelmet with acoustically transparent material, ie a light coloured speaker cloth, that way I might be able to put some acoustic treatment behind it too.
I just want to know where I can position the speakers for the various sound formats, if there is any kind of compromise arrangement, or I might have to pick one version to stick to. The perks of waiting until next year for this means I might then have some idea of which option 'takes off' (if any).
I have very few friends/relations who have any interest in home cinema in the terms we think of it too. Some people count a TV as 'home cinema' too, when we all know that if it hasn't got a projector then it is just ' a big telly'.
So glad I decided to hold off installing an Atmos system. IMHO multiple competing standards for a (fairly) small marketplace wont herald a transition away from 5.1.
Atmos is fantastic even though there are only a handful of available blu rays at the moment. The DSU up mixer is also brilliant.
You don't have to use ceiling heights. Front/rear heights are an Atmos/DTS:X option too. I am now running a pair of MK MP150's as FH's in an Atmos system and its seriously fantastic.
KK has dedicated speakers for this role as you know. It will transform your movie viewing experience.
Don't dismiss it......oh and I haven't lost any quality just added to it.
^ Front/Rear height speakers? You mean same principle as Audyssey DSX / Dolby Pro Logic IIz / DTS Neo:X Height? I was under the impression the effect can only be obtained with speakers in the ceiling firing downwards. At least that seems the recommendation. Difficult for most to implement in normal rooms. I'm just saying it'll be a hard sell for most home theater fans without dedicated rooms, not that it can't sound fantastic if done right.
You need to send an invite for a movie night! lol
The one thing I do know about Atmos, Auro and DTS-X is that they are a retailers dream. New processors for the decoding and more speakers!
I haven't heard Atmos yet and I won't as I don't want more speakers in my living room and I know if I do I will be screwing speakers to the ceiling.
At least with 5.1 / 7.1 all of the different formats used the same speaker layout.
I guess this will run like VHS /Betamax and HD DVD/ Blu Ray, content and availability will push the winning format.
Nope FH/RH are prescribed Atmos speaker locations.
BTW KK does not advocate the use if in ceiling speakers for object based audio.
I get that if you haven't heard Atmos one would be skeptical.
It's fantastic with the limited amount of blu rays available. The Dolby upmixer DSU us worth it alone for all your non Atmos movies.
No they are not. Dolby do not prescribe height speakers in any of their guides or for any of their Atmos speaker locations. Dolby only prescribe ceiling mounted or Atmos upward firing speakers. As far as Atmos goes, Dolby make no mention of height speakers what so ever for use as part of any Atmos configuration.
Dolby Atmos Speaker Setup Guide
If you are using height speakers (speakers positioned as you'd position them as height speakers as with Dolby PLIIz and Audyssey DSX) to facilitate Atmos audio then what you are getting is an aproximation of Atmos and not Atmos as prescribed by Dolby or mixed by a studio authoring Atmos encoded content. Atmos was developed by Dolby so if MK want to suggest not using what the developer of a format prescribes then I'd doubt the credentials of the speaker manufacturer to make such suggestions. Atmos was developed for the cinema and Atmos equipped theatres use ceiling mounted arrays, not wall mounted height speakers. The studios authoring the audio use studios equipped with ceiling speakers, not wall mounted height speakers. What you have is more conducive with the arrangement associated with Auro 3D than that commonly used for Atmos or are you simply mistakenly referring to the Atmos speakers by using the term height speakers?
Dolby specify the use of up to 34 speakers in an Atmos system. FH and RH ARE part of this specification.
D&M products allow for this Atmos speaker placement as does the Steinway P200 , Trinnov Altitude,Storm and Datasat RS20i processors.
Dolby recommends that these speakers are used in conjunction with either TF TM TR.
So YES they are DESIGNATED Atmos speaker locations.
I have spent many many hours with 5 different Atmos systems experimenting with the optimal Atmos layout for different rooms.
In my room FH's provide the best results. Dolby also recommend direct firing speakers for all speakers. I use tripole surrounds and will be using tripole for TM as they give far better results in medium and small rooms.
Dolby provide a set of guidelines.
I can assure you that I am def not running a pseudo Atmos system.
You will also find that DTS prescribe to the use of FH and RH speakers for DTS:X as well as in ceiling.
Taken from the Dolby Atmos PDF
So in a nut shell - will my ATMOS speaker setup also work for DTS-X? I have a 5.1.2 setup (I know I will have to get a new amp for DTS-X most likely- I was just wondering about the ATMOS speakers I have already if they would work with DTS-X?
So you've a cinema? I see no reference to height speakers within any literature that deals with the consumer home theatre implimentation of Atmos? Which receiver do you have because I know of no integrated receiver able to deal with anything more than at most a 7.1.4 Atmos configurations and that configuration requires the use of either 4 ceiling mounted speakers or 4 Atmos upward firing speakers. The home implimention doesn't even fascilitate the additional width channels associated with the theatre implementation of Atmos.
If you could fascilitate Atmos as intended by Dolby using wall mounted height speakers rather than ceiling speakers then don't you think Dolby would be publicising the fact or are they promoting the use of ceiling speakers because they think it more convenient for people to implement them? Why bither promoting upward firing speakers to negate the need for seiling speakers if all they need to do is tell peole to mount the speakers on the wall?
As far as Dolby are concerned, the 12 channel or less home implementation of Atmos does not use or fascilitate the use of height speakers.
If using a high end processor with the ability to process up to 32 channels of Atmos data then you are not a typical Atmos home consumer. Most people will be limited to ceiling or upward firing speaker arrangements without the additional possibility of additional width or height channels. You yourself cannot have additional channels because you state that you've a 5.2.2 setup so you're not able to utilise the extra height channel capabilities alongside the more conventional Atmos arrangent. The primary Atmos audio channels are those associated with the ceiling speakers, not the height or width channels. If using a high end processor with the ability to process up to 32 channels of Atmos data then you'd be implimenting speaker configurations associated with theatres as opposed to those being used by most Atmos home AV receivers owners use or can facilitate.
No one knows yet. DTS will be making an announcement and officially launching the new format on April 9th. We'll hopefully get some answers then?
Fingers crossed that it takes the same setup of speakers
Separate names with a comma.