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DTS fanboy-ism gone mad..

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by puddleduck, Jul 14, 2003.

  1. puddleduck

    puddleduck
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    Just saw this:

    http://www.totaldvd.net/cgi-bin/displaynews.php?id=4293

    I'm used to lazy reviewers making vague claims for the benefits of DTS over DD5.1 but this is just ridiculous.

    For this sort of thing to be useful, we need "timestamps" so we can try to hear the differences for ourselves.

    Most reviewers notice only subtle differences, but in this round-up DTS often gets 2 or more marks out of 10 for audio. That’s implying there is a 20% improvement in some cases!

    Bonkers...

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. ebury

    ebury
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    Personal opinion, is just that!!!Just because someone says the dts is better than DD,thats his choice!!!I would always say it depends on the equipment your using to listen to these different soundtracks!!
    Although in the test you have highlighted,i do actualy find the dts soundtrack to be more involving for the film watcher(??)does it mean it sounds better?
    WHO KNOWS?
    I do try and find dts soundtacks as i have mostly found (to me)they sound sharper to the ear, and slightly more dynamic.
    But thats not to say always, as i have found out with the Gangs of new york r2 dts soundtrack:eek:
    This in comparison to the DD track is very muted-wellit is on my system:eek:
    The DD track is sharper,more atmospheric and lifelike:D
    Aside this,just because a reveiwer says something(paid or not:rotfl: ),
    dont beleive until you've tried yourself(then we can come here and rant:laugh: :laugh: .
    Only recently on this forum,Adaptation superbit was reveiwed and said the pic' quality was top notch:eek: .Well unless i'm blind:)cool: )the pic is up and down in quality all the way through the film,Hardly justifying the superbit name and reveiw!!!!
    I would say anything to get paid to reveiw my dvd's:rotfl: :rotfl:
     
  3. figrin_dan

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    Totally agree with ebury there

    Except: Adaptation looked really awful at the cinema. I thought perhaps it was made on 16mm to be 'quirky'. When I heard it would be superbit I thought it would be a waste but the picture is probably as good as it could possibly be.
     
  4. Steve.EX

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    There are a number of DTS lemmings here as well.


    Steven.
     
  5. Hawklord

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    I love DD and DTS. Just think of the poor buggers who had to put up with mono for all those years.
     
  6. Phil Hinton

    Phil Hinton
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    Ok well seeing as I wrote the reviews you mention I guess I will try to answer a few points.

    First off - I'm not a Fanboy gone mad and I don't get paid to write reviews! I do it because i enjoy films and DVD and have been into this hobby for about 15 years (started back in the days of LD and Prologic). Secondly the opinions I express in any review, is just that, opinion. It will differ from some peoples and agree with others, but thats the same for every reviewer, you soon learn to like a reviewer if their opinion agrees with yours.

    As for dts soundtracks over Dolby Digital, I can point you to brilliant examples of each technology (and Bad), I am not a Dolby Digital basher, i try to be as transparant as possible, and pick the track that to my ears sounds better, i base that on certain areas, dialogue, clarity of effects and steering, dynamics and bass control. For that review with the five said discs the dts track in most cases was just more natural open and clear when compared to the DD track.But the majority were only just better, the only two which took higher marks were X-man 1.5, and Bond. In the case of Bond if you have actually seen the US R1 version you will know that the lipsync is miles off and that the DTS and DD tracks suffer from drop outs, the R2 version is bang on with no problems at all. And the dts track is just more dynamic and engaging than the rather muted Dolby track. And Yes some of the dts tracks are 20% better in my Opinion, Have you done side to side comparisons?

    As for equipment used, i use a Barco PJ, 7.5ft screen, Iscan Pro and Onkyo THX certified DVD Audio/Video Player via Comp.
    The audio side of things are a Tag AV32R, Rotel 1075 THX Amp, and M&K 750thx speakers with M&K SS55 Tripoles and a Velodyne CHT-15. So it's not totally high end, but probably sits in the Mid end area of equipment and performance.

    It has to be said though that to review properly the equipment has to be calibrated correctly, which I strive to achieve for every review.

    As for Adaptation, it is a first class picture, that uses different film stock through out. Any grain seen is intentional so i am not going to mark down because that is the directors intention and artistic license. If you look at any other review of the disc I bet you will find a split when it comes to Picture quality.

    At the end of the day I write reviews for you guys here and for Total DVD Online visitors, my intention is to point you towards the better discs out there for you to make your own minds up. And I don't get Paid, but i get to watch a hell of a lot of DVDs.
     
  7. NicolasB

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    There's certainly no reason why the DTS soundtrack can't be that much better than the DD version. (Or vice versa, for that matter). The two tracks may very well have been mastered separately. It's not unknown for the the soundtrack of a Region 1 DVD to be significantly different from that of the Region 2 version of the same film. That doesn't (necessarily) point to any technical sonic superiority of NTSC over PAL, let alone of Region 1 encryption over Region 2 encryption, it's just that they are two different recordings.
     
  8. ebury

    ebury
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  9. Phil Hinton

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    :) Sorry Typo, just been emailing someone about that film and must have got a little confused
     
  10. FoxyMulder

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    One of the things i look for these days when buying a film on dvd is DTS sound, i just think the higher bitrate offered should ((but not always)) offer better sound quality.

    I don't like buying region 2 cos i do believe the 4% pal speedup will affect sound quality, i have the region 1 dts version of die another day and yes i noticed a few instances of lip synch and a few dropouts but when i returned to those areas of the disc they played fine it seems to be a random thing, i don't know if the region 2 is better and i won't buy it, i took someones advice and bought the region 2 of Armageddon on the strengh it was anamorphic but the sound quality to my ears anyways is just not as good as the criterion edition, ive been told they have the same master so can only assume the speedup causes the problem as the bass isnt as tight and the steering isnt quite as effective on the region 2 version.
     
  11. Marv

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    I really love DTS and always pick it over the DD track on a dvd. But my Dolby Digital Demo's wipe the floor woth some DTS tracks.
     
  12. Dave H

    Dave H
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    I must be a Fan boy then :laugh:
     
  13. museumsteve

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    I'll always choose a version of a DVD with DTS in the hope it's better :) and of course if it isn;t then there's always the DD to make up for it, surely that makes sense.
    It has to be better than buying a DD version and then wondering if the DTS soundtrack is better and looking to re-buy the same movie.
    Just my opinion and hopefully one that makes sense.

    I am however a DTS LD fanboy..but that's a different story.;)

    As for THX 1138, I appreciate your reviews mate keep up the good work :)
     
  14. juboy

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    Unless there are clearly faults/errors with the actual production of either soundtrack, as with many of these things, if you think the DTS version of a soundtrack is likely to sound better than the DD version, chances are it will do (to you).

    And if you personally think it sounds better, then it is better.

    Of course, the same also works in reverse :)
     
  15. michaelm

    michaelm
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    dts (get it right people) is the one for me
    It's so much better than double-d
    The bass extension and highs as well
    You prefer Dolby Digital? Ah well...
     
  16. juboy

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    May I refer you to the DTS official website, where every mention of their acronym name (other than their logo) follows standard written English practice of employing capital letters:

    http://www.dtstech.com/

    I think you'll find that would be 'double-D' (get it right michael) :rolleyes:
     
  17. michaelm

    michaelm
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    Oooooooh! :rotfl:
     
  18. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
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    What-ever!!!

    I bet 99% of DTS lemmings could not identify DTS from DD (or vice versa) on blind repeated (A/B) playback.of a sample

    Steven.
     
  19. Adam Barratt

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    It's 'DTS', not 'dts'.

    It's an abbreviation, not an acronym. ;)

    Even though the Dolby Digital soundtrack's high frequency response is greater? Low frequencies are also the least compressed elements in a Dolby Digital soundtrack, so this is where I would expect to hear least difference between formats. I would be listening for mid-range differences, myself.

    I am a little cautious that the discs were provided by DTS themselves. I think they should be sourced independently to eliminate any appearance of bias, whether present or not. There may be no payment for the reviews, but I imagine the discs were provided free of charge.

    I hope playback levels were accurately adjusted to compensate for the attenuation caused by dialog normalization. There are many free RTA programmes available that allow this to be done.

    Adam
     
  20. michaelm

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    Everyone, even the "experts" that diss dts (or DTS, whatever), such as those in HCC magazine, agree that the bottom end of a dts soundtrack sounds fuller, richer and louder than DD. And the high ends positively ring. One of the reasons for this is that dts overall is much less compressed than DD.
     
  21. Phil Hinton

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    Adam,

    You make some valid points in your post, however there are a few things we cant change. One is who sources the discs. I for one cannot afford to buy them, so unless someone donates discs we cannot review them. I am sure that the readers would rather have the reviews than not, dts are kind enough to give me the discs, but they get nothing in return other than honest and unbiased reviews and a link to there website.
    There will always be the seperate camps who will diss eachother, but I remember when it was hard to get 5.1 tracks, never mind both technologies on discs like we do nowadays. I love DD and DTS as both are very capable technologies, I can find examples good and bad with each as well.
    I try not to get into technical arguements over which is better, i would rather give a real world opinion from disc to disc on equipment that is correctly calibrated but not overly technical. At the end of the day the movie is important the soundtrack technologies just add or detract from that.
     
  22. juboy

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    To be entirely pedantic, we were both wrong. Strictly speaking, it's actually an Initialism ;)

    "An abbreviation consisting of the first letter or letters of words in a phrase (for example, BBC Bristish Broadcasting Corporation), syllables or components of a word (TNT for trinitrotoluene), or a combination of words and syllables (ESP for extrasensory perception) and pronounced by spelling out the letters one by one rather than as a solid word"
     
  23. figrin_dan

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    dts looks nicer than DTS - But surely it's D.T.S.
     
  24. ebury

    ebury
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    :boring: :boring: :boring: :laugh: :laugh:
     
  25. juboy

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    No, that would be 'DTS Vs. Dolby Digital'.

    Talking about the English language rules regarding the DTS abbreviation is actually more interesting and less hackneyed.
     
  26. Adam Barratt

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    Funny that you mention louder (which it usually is), as this goes hand in hand with both "fuller" and "richer"; although for physchological rather than technical reasons.

    I've never met an 'expert' (ie. an engineer or developer, not a reviewer or writer) who has stated a preference for the bass response of either format (an important distinction to make, and not the same as soundtrack), as they are essentially identical. Compression levels as such have no impact on bass response between the formats.

    Less compressed, you say? You learn something new every day. ;)

    :D

    Especially when the topics are almost always the online equivalent of Groundhog Day in their repetitiveness. Now was that an analogy, a simile or a comparison? ;)

    Adam
     
  27. Dean

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    Interesting topic, I pose the question as to which sounds better: a dts 5.1 soundtrack or a THX mastered Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack. All my THX discs sounds as good, if not better, than impressive dts discs... I love em both but think that THX Dolby Digital is better.
     
  28. FoxyMulder

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    What about a THX mastered DTS 5.1 soundtrack ?
     
  29. puddleduck

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    I think THX is this discussion is a bit of a red herring here.

    Assuming the DTS and DD encodes use the same THX approved master audio sources, I doubt there would be a significant difference between the two formats.

    I don't think there is a specific THX DD codec - DD is DD as far as I know...?
     
  30. Dean

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    FoxyMulder, as far as I know THX IS EXCLUSIVE TO DOLBY DIGITAL. I would like to know of a THX mastered DTS 5.1 soundtrack?

    How so? Check here:

    http://www.dolby.com/thx/thxnew.html

    I think the score should be one all now... to be honest both sound systems are phenomenal, check this article: :p

    http://www.dolby.com/tech/mp.in.0103.DigitalVsDTS.pdf
     

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