Question DSU (Dolby Surround Upmixer) Issues

Franco1984

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Hi all, I apologise in advance if this topic has already been covered. I've tried a quick search on Google and on this site, and so far yielded no results. So, where to begin? I've recently installed a 7.2.4 (upgrade from a 7.2) set-up and watched one film in native Atmos using my Sony UBP-x800. I've since then attempted to configure my Windows 10 PC to allow Atmos. I've gone through the usual 'Sound' settings in Windows to choose the number of speakers. There are some advanced settings within Windows to choose spatial settings (Dolby Atmos etc.). Anyway, I'm not sure whether it worked or not? In any case, this isn't the relevant issue here (at least I don't think it is). The current options on my Denon AVR x6300H receiver of course provide both the Dolby and DTS upmixers for non-native Atmos or Nueral source materials; DSU and DTS Nueral:X. In an attempt try out both upmixers with sound content on my PC, I was shocked that Dolby's upmixer began causing intolerable distortion, which admittedly isn't present all the time, but definitely most of the time. And by that, I mean occasionally it works fine, but if for example I change to Nueral:X, and then switch back again to DSU, the distortion (mostly in the form of loud crackling) starts and continues relentlessly. It is so bad that it is both unlistenable and perhaps even damaging to the speakers? Nueral:X on the other hand works as it should do without a hitch, and makes even some old games sound awesome despite their age. So, it looks like I'm restricted to using Nueral:X, which I can live with since it does a fantastic job. Still, I'd have preferred to have had the option of using DSU all the same, and I am wondering if anyone else has come across the same or a similar problem with DSU, or perhaps, conversely Nueral:X? Also, the plot thickens ever so slightly. I noticed shortly afterwards when preparing to test out both upmixers on some films (using Blu-ray discs on a UHD player, not on my PC), that the DSU once again causes the exact same distortion issues - just as those it causes on my PC - on the film's main menu screens of those which have a DTS 2.0 encode. Once the films begin playing however, DSU appears to work fine even with a DTS encoded track, though it was a DTS HD-Master Audio 5.1 track. I haven't tested DSU with a film fully mixed in 2.0. Anyway, I find it more than a little odd and mystifying that I'm encountering such issues - albeit fairly minor though they seem to be - when nobody else appears to have done.
 
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That sounds like you have a faulty receiver, it should still be under warranty.
 
That sounds like you have a faulty receiver, it should still be under warranty.

Hi, thanks for the quick response. Hm, funnily enough, that possibility never even crossed my mind! I believe it is still within its 2 year warranty. I suppose I better contact Denon and see what they have to say about it. Thanks.
 
Did you recently do any FW upgrades? I had this issue on one of mine. I took it back to my dealer, they said they replicated the issue so sent it back for repair. Over 3 weeks later finally got it back, but issue is exactly the same! It just seemed to start doing the issue one day, as if faulty, but wondered if an upgrade introduced it. I also run 4 ATMOS speakers. Amp is only 6 months old, but I’m now struggling to even get a response from the supplier, despite offering to just PX / upgrade it as a potentially simple solution to the issue!!
 
Did you recently do any FW upgrades? I had this issue on one of mine. I took it back to my dealer, they said they replicated the issue so sent it back for repair. Over 3 weeks later finally got it back, but issue is exactly the same! It just seemed to start doing the issue one day, as if faulty, but wondered if an upgrade introduced it. I also run 4 ATMOS speakers. Amp is only 6 months old, but I’m now struggling to even get a response from the supplier, despite offering to just PX / upgrade it as a potentially simple solution to the issue!!

Hi, yes my Denon AVR x6300H has all the latest firmware updates and the audio issues persist. I've had the AVR over a year, but literally sat in its box new and untouched for all that time due to a lengthy process of moving and renovating house. I've been running the x6300H for roughly 3-4 weeks now, but up until last weekend, all the audio was passed through to my television as I hadn't until then fully set-up all of my speakers.Before then, I have also been having video pass-through issues as well, namely with my PS4 (standard), suspected "handshake" issues which then causes rebound "handshake" issues with my Sony UBP x800 UHD player, resulting in a total loss of video (blank screen). The settings menu can also be flaky, sometimes not showing up when operating the UHD player, and the onscreen volume display - which is set to 'Always On' in the setttings (by default, I think) - fails to show changes in volume when running the UHD player or when playing computer games on my PC.

As for the audio issues, not only does the DSU completely malfunction with 2 channel content of any kind resulting in the aforementioned distortion in the form of intense crackling and muffling of sound, but no up-mixing occurs either, with the entire sound-stage collapses into the front speakers. I have also noticed a persistent, almost interminable low level buzz/hum from all speaker channels, especially when the volume gain is set higher, and with Audyssey switched on, and particularly when watching or listening to content where there is an absence of ambient sound. I searched this issue via Google this week, and with regards to the hum/buzz issue, it would appear that other owners of the x6300H have encountered this very same issue as well, based on comments here on AVForums threads dating back a year or two ago.

So, where am I at with these problems now then? Well, I've been in direct contact with Denon tech support - Tel: +44 (0)2890 279830 (a Northern Ireland area code) - and they've agreed that the AVR does needs to come back in for repair, but I need to do it via the company I bought the AVR from. Denon sent me an email of the issues I described to them - though interestingly they failed to mention the issue of DSU up-mixer - containing a reference number, all of which I can forward to the vendor. Of course, I've personally included the issue of the DSU oddly not mentioned by Denon. But the fact that you're still experiencing the exact same issues post-repair does not fill me with confidence. If my x6300H comes back with any issue unresolved, then I'd call Denon back and complain. If the proposed resolution isn't satisfactory, including I might add, the offer of some monetary recompense for the sheer inconvenience, then I'd consider trying to look into what legal rights you have as a consumer.
 
I had handshaking issues, but setting hdmi in amp and tv to enhanced as well as making sure all hdmi cables were 18gbps sorted that.
OSD I know on some models the OSD only works up to 4k @ 24/30hz and with 50/60hz stuff it doesn’t display, but I thought that was only on the lower models 2400 etc..
After the unsuccessful repair I directly asked the dealer for a refund or px but except for a we’re busy it’s Fri and we’ll come back to you on Mon over a week ago now, I’ve heard nothing despite chasing 3 days ago..
 
I had handshaking issues, but setting hdmi in amp and tv to enhanced as well as making sure all hdmi cables were 18gbps sorted that.
OSD I know on some models the OSD only works up to 4k @ 24/30hz and with 50/60hz stuff it doesn’t display, but I thought that was only on the lower models 2400 etc..
After the unsuccessful repair I directly asked the dealer for a refund or px but except for a we’re busy it’s Fri and we’ll come back to you on Mon over a week ago now, I’ve heard nothing despite chasing 3 days ago..

Denon tech support believe that standard HDMI cables should be fine for the vanilla PS4 since its output is a maximum of 1080p. But it's probably worth a try all the same. Your situation doesn't sound good with the supplier. Where did you buy from? Is your model also the x6300H?
 
Also by FW update, I did wonder with mine if a recent FW update introduced the issue somehow.
 
Also by FW update, I did wonder with mine if a recent FW update introduced the issue somehow.

Well, I suppose it's always possible, as these things can sometimes cause unintended problems to arise. Still, I think it would have probably been more widely reported if the FW was the suspected cause of an issue or issues. One of the first things I did was run a FW update for the AVR, something I tend to do with any and all products I own, so I can't offer any solid comment on that, other than that Denon believe from the symptoms I described to them over the phone for them to be caused by a hardware fault.
 
Yes to be honest, I have no idea what’s caused the issue. I’m just a bit fed up with the issue as it’s not very family friendly to use when I’m not there.. Mine is an x4400, I bought an x2400 to temporarily use whilst without the x4400 as we can’t easily use anything without an amp, the x2400 has zero issues, but only ran it 7.1. When my amp came back I virtually gave away the x2400 to a mate, but if it has to go away again I’m stuffed unless I buy another temp amp. Hence my proposal to them to just do a px upgrade to an x6400. Will chase again..
 
Furthermore in addition to the video issues with the PS4 standard, I now remember trying it with a HDMI cable capable of 18gbps and the same problems persisted. In fact, the only way for my PS4 to work at all video wise is to have 'Video Conversion' in the 'Video' settings of the main menu set to 'On' (by default it is set to 'Off'). Otherwise, all I experience is a blank screen and my AVR/TV telling me there is 'No signal'. Consequently, the PS4 is the only connected device of many that I have whereby the AVR must be switched on - as opposed to being in standby - for the video to function, because 'Video Conversion' is disabled in standby.
 
Yes to be honest, I have no idea what’s caused the issue. I’m just a bit fed up with the issue as it’s not very family friendly to use when I’m not there.. Mine is an x4400, I bought an x2400 to temporarily use whilst without the x4400 as we can’t easily use anything without an amp, the x2400 has zero issues, but only ran it 7.1. When my amp came back I virtually gave away the x2400 to a mate, but if it has to go away again I’m stuffed unless I buy another temp amp. Hence my proposal to them to just do a px upgrade to an x6400. Will chase again..

Sorry to hear that, it really does sound like you're in a crappy situation. If the same happens to me, then I would be mighty displeased to put it politely. After all, as with yourself, my set-up now depends entirely on having a working AVR, and in its absence I can't use any connected media device, not least since all my current HDMI leads connecting each individual device aren't long enough to reach the HDMI ports on my TV, and I begrudge spending extra money I neither have at my disposal nor should I have to spend in order to do the things I bought a premium AVR to perform. Very frustrating. This is my first Denon product ever, and I've not been left with a good first impression. With regards to your situation, try to search for free legal advice for consumer rights. Citizens Advice Consumer Rights may or may not be able to help if your supplier continues to ignore you. Especially if the product is still under warranty, and in light of the fact that the issues for which you sent it back to begin for repair still remain, then I'm fairly confident they have a legal obligation to resolve the problems you are having with the AVR.
 
Ok cheers, will give them a chance and chase again first. They are mentioned on here quite a few times by happy customers although I don't think they're a direct advertiser on here. I’ve probably had 4-5 Denon / Marantz over the years, mostly good, but thinking back my 7011 had handshaking issues with my PS4 after a PS4 update (may have been HDR?!), solved the issue by replacing the Hisense TV with a Panasonic.
 
Ok cheers, will give them a chance and chase again first. They are mentioned on here quite a few times by happy customers although I don't think they're a direct advertiser on here. I’ve probably had 4-5 Denon / Marantz over the years, mostly good, but thinking back my 7011 had handshaking issues with my PS4 after a PS4 update (may have been HDR?!), solved the issue by replacing the Hisense TV with a Panasonic.

My pleasure, hope you get it resolved without too much hassle, as do I with my own!

Speaking of HDR on the PS4, indeed this does cause me to experience a complete loss of video if the PS4 HDR setting is to 'Automatic' (which I think it is by default), and I a try running a game which is HDR compatible - so for example, 'The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt' which was updated with HDR by CDProjektRed in a fairly recent patch - despite having 'Video Conversion' on. Again, I tried a HDMI cable capable of 18gbps to see if this resolved the problem, which it didn't. Though I can access the PS4 dashboard and run games which are not HDR compatible (or at least at the time of this posting aren't) such 'Tom Raider - Definitive Edition', for example. In the end, switching the HDR setting to 'Off' from 'Automatic' in the PS4 standard main dashboard settings resolved the issue. However, as I say, I must keep 'Video Conversion' on and my AVR out of standby mode to retain video, for reasons neither I or Denon tech support understand.
 
I had handshaking issues, but setting hdmi in amp and tv to enhanced as well as making sure all hdmi cables were 18gbps sorted that.
OSD I know on some models the OSD only works up to 4k @ 24/30hz and with 50/60hz stuff it doesn’t display, but I thought that was only on the lower models 2400 etc..
After the unsuccessful repair I directly asked the dealer for a refund or px but except for a we’re busy it’s Fri and we’ll come back to you on Mon over a week ago now, I’ve heard nothing despite chasing 3 days ago..

Hi, I forgot to ask, out of curiosity, who is the dealer you bought the x4400 from and are now having trouble with?
 
Will PM you as probably not fair to air it in public without giving them a chance.. :)
 
Also by FW update, I did wonder with mine if a recent FW update introduced the issue somehow.
Upgrading to the recent 2 firmwares introduced the issue.

I resolved this by downloading the older version into a thumbdrive and did a manual update.

It is irritating to have this issue.
 
Upgrading to the recent 2 firmwares introduced the issue.

I resolved this by downloading the older version into a thumbdrive and did a manual update.

It is irritating to have this issue.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but then I wonder why Denon tech support didn't know anything about it when I told them? Also, if this is true, do they not bug test firmware before releasing them? After all, they're supposed to make things better not worse!
 
I'm not saying you're wrong, but then I wonder why Denon tech support didn't know anything about it when I told them? Also, if this is true, do they not bug test firmware before releasing them? After all, they're supposed to make things better not worse!

I have been experiencing this issue since the previous update. And I couldn't find any post or find any related information on this. I thought I was the isolated one. And so I disabled the auto update.

For my case, it only happens when I enable DSU for stereo.
 
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I have been experiencing this issue since surge previous update. And I couldn't find any post or find any related information on this. I thought I was the isolated one. And so I disabled the auto update.

For my case, it only happens when I enable DSU for stereo.

Okay thanks for the feedback. I wonder if Denon know about it or not? I've complained to them and my receiver has gone back in for repair, but not just because of this issue, but because of a whole array of issue involving video and audio with my AVR.
 
Just in case anyone is interested, the fault with my Denon AVR x6300H was caused by a faulty audio board. It caused a low level hum/buzzing on all speaker channels - especially or maybe even only with Audyssey enabled in the AVR settings - an issue with this model previously discussed elsewhere on the internet (including another thread here on AVForums) by other owners of the x6300H. Both this issue, along with the issue of the Dolby Surround upmixer (the purpose of this thread), has been resolved by a complete change of audio board at Denon's authorises repair centre, Sound Systems Technology. Sadly some of the video issues I was having with the x6300H (previously unmentioned here on this thread) are unresolved at the time of writing.

Kind Regards.
 

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