Drowning Child

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Steve N, Sep 21, 2007.

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  1. Steve N

    Steve N
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    I'm absolutely gutted by this story today:

    Here

    I just can't comprehend the actions of the two Police Community Support Officers who stood by and did nothing.

    Is there anyone reading this who can explain this to me.
    Is there anyone on here who would have acted in the same way.
     
  2. kingfats

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    Hi Steve N
    Thanks for posting about this!
    I can't believe they stood there and did nothing,but they did,If they jumped in and least had a look,maybe the boy would be alive today.
    I helped save a woman drowning in the river Thames (Eton) it was instinct,i just dived in to help.
    How could they just stand there.
     
  3. p0kerm0n2004

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    Tragic story for sure, but this article puts a slightly different light on events...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7007081.stm

    Regardless of the ins and outs of what the PCSOs did or didn't do, a young boy needlessly lost his life and I suspect the real reasons for that go far beyond the headlines in any news article.
     
  4. njp

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    People are too quick to rush to judgement. Some reports made it sound as though they watched him flapping around in the water and did nothing. In reality, he had disappeared under the water and was in all probability already dead by the time they arrived. PCSOs are not trained in underwater rescues, and neither are conventional PCs. There are many cases of would-be rescuers becoming victims themselves, which could have made a tragedy even worse.
     
  5. Steve N

    Steve N
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    Well done mate. I have tremendous respect for people like you :thumbsup:
     
  6. signs

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    it was on the news today (BBC 2) the water was only 6ft deep, why the hell didn't they jump in :(
     
  7. Orson

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    It's a heartbreaking story, but I suppose they wouldn't know how deep the water was until they jumped in.

    Having said that, I can't believe that anyone who can swim wouldn't have tried to help.
     
  8. Rasczak

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    :nono: This story is going in the wrong direction - it is not the fault of the Community Support Officers that the boy was playing in the water and died as a result of a tragic accident.

    I have the deepest sympathies with the family - but you cannot expect everyone, whether they wear a uniform or not, to always make the decisions we would aspire to from the comfort of our sofas.

    IMHO it is as inappropriate to point the finger of blame at the Officers just as much as it is at the responsible adult monitoring the 10 year old child. It was a terrible, tragic accident.
     
  9. kingfats

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    Yes.you are right!
    It is wrong to blame that poor boys death on the officers in question.
    But their lack of at least trying comes over as cowardly to me.
    That's just me though.
     
  10. signs

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    are you saying if you had been there you would have done nothing ?
     
  11. Rasczak

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    How can I possibly answer that? I certainly hope I would - I served 10 years in armed forces including active theatres and don't think anyone would call me 'cowardly' - but it would depend upon so many circumstances.
     
  12. signs

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    i apologise for that ,and given your background I'm sure you would have done something

    but whats the point of these "community Police" if all they do is stand round and take notes :thumbsdow
     
  13. Rasczak

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    My guess would be to provide a cheaper alternative than training and recruiting Police Officers.
     
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    "cheep" at what cost, a life!
     
  15. Pat_C

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    Especially the 16 year old PCSOs that were (and possibly still are) employed by Thames Valley Police. They probably get a nice shiny pound coin to spend on sweets each week.

    The whole thing is a joke as far as I'm concerned; nothing more than a plan to allow the government to lie about how many more police there are on the streets, whilst promoting the cuddly-but-utterly-pointless word 'community' as they love to do.

    Community support my arse.
     
  16. pixelated

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    Agreed.
     
  17. Jules

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    I'd like to think I would have jumped in, BUT what kind of person blames someone for not being heroic? I think its despicable that everyone is blaming the PSO's.

    If they had saved them, they would have been heroes, but because they didn't they are seen as cowardly! :mad:

    Yes, the family are grieving and could be excused such a reaction in the short term, but I think it's cheap to target the PSO's without knowing exactly what the circumstances were. They will be feeling pretty low about the experience themselves.
    The PSO's could be unable to swim, and may well be very young adults being exploited by an under resourced police force.
     
  18. signs

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    :(
     
  19. phillfyspoon

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    Many of you are quick to lay down these comments knowing nothing about any of the circumstances, the only info u have is a story written by the media to make a "story"

    It is easy to see the reason this is a good "story", laying blame on the officers makes that story what it is, a boy died it was a tragic event, the media come alone and do what they allways do.
     
  20. kingfats

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    Does anyone know if PCSO's have to be able to swim to take up the job.
     
  21. mjn

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    From what i've read, no.

    But fully trained police finish training with some kind of life saving cert.

    At the end of the day, these plastic policemen serve no purpose, and have no more rights to arrest than a member of the public.
     
  22. dazzafact

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    in the market town that I've just moved from they have a couple of these Community support officers, and what they do is the old beat job; walking through the High Street etc, being a first point of contact for anyone with any problems. And in my eyes that is a good thing. They are a hell of a lot friendlier than the normal cops up my way, who seem to adopt a Draconian sense of street justice.

    I have full sympathy for the parents of this child, but to blame these 2 "plastic" copppers is unjust.
     
  23. kingfats

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    Agreed!
    But it should be discussed and questioned their lack of action that day!
     
  24. dazzafact

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    As mentioned, did they really stand and watch him drown? Look here
     
  25. Orson

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    I saw the 'pond' on the news last night, and it looked more like a lake to me, so unless they were very familiar with that exact location, there's no way they could have known how deep the water was, and if they couldn't swim, it looks pretty daunting.
    But the BBC article mentions the fact that 2 anglers had waded in to save the boys sister, so could the PCSO's not have tried?
    But if it was that easy, you'd have thought that the anglers would have been able to reach him?

    I post these contradictory comments not to cast blame, but to highlight that things are rarely black and white, and sitting in our armchairs being judgemental is far too easy, we don't really know the facts.

    But we're at a point in society where everything has to be someone's fault, there can't just be tragic accidents any more, and if there is an authority figure to blame, well then even better.

    You can question the PCSO's, the parents, or whoever was supervising the children (if they were supervised), but that is just playing the blame game again, it won't help anyone.
     
  26. njp

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    Exactly. I think the way these PCSOs are being pilloried by armchair heroes who weren't there and have no idea of the exact circumstances, is outrageous.
     
  27. Ian J

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    Facts don't seem to be too relevant in today's media driven society as we just seem to believe what the media force feed us. We seem to know absolutely nothing about the circumstances surrounding this tragedy but that doesn't stop people from voicing opinions exactly the same as the guilt or innocence of the McCanns changes from day to day or week to week dependant on what the media is forcefeeding us at the time.

    Most people wouldn't stand by and let a young child drown if they could do something about it so why can't we give these two people the benefit of the doubt until such times as the full facts emerge.
     
  28. kingfats

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    No they did not!
    But they did not do enough either.
     
  29. shodan

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    Absoutely tragic story! Let it be a reminder toparents abot the dangers of letting children play unsupervised near ponds and lakes etc. A 10 year old supervising an 8 year old as they go to collect tadpoles from a large body of water is a recipe for disaster, no matter how normal it may seem.

    Very easy to pass judgement on people when we weren't there but we have to remember that fact.

    I'm actually surprised the PCSO's got there as quick as they did! I wonder who called it in to police. One of the nearby fisherman I suppose.
    If the PCSO's got there and couldn't see where the boy was then there wasn't much more they could do, other than what they did, which was to call for support and the offices with the equipment and the training to use it in order to be able to safely go into the water and conduct a search.

    In the Met officers aren't required to be able to swim to do the job. There is the Marine Support Unit for occasions where an oficer is needed to go into water. It is drilled into us not to go into lakes, pond's, rivers etc as well as up onto roofs and onto train tracks because of the dangers and because officers have been killed doing it before. Also, whether or not I personally agree with it, if we are injured or die doing one of these actions then our insurance is invalid too.
     
  30. dazzafact

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    And your logic behind that is what? What could they have done to save this poor boy after what was probably 10 minutes under water?

    This story is politically driven. Which really annoys the hell out of me; as using the loss of a young boy for ammunition for the arguement against the use of community police, is just damn right offensive.:thumbsdow
     
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