Drone Registration Update (CAA-21st Oct 19)

rickyt

Active Member
Just noticed an update issued by the CAA today [21st Oct 2019] regarding registration which will go live on the 5th November 2019. I'm sure I had read the fee for registration had been about £16 ,but on the site it reads "The cost for this will be £9 renewable annually. " Good news.
A little more info:

The new regulations apply to drones and model aircraft from 250g to 20kg that are used outdoors.
There are three main requirements.
You must:


  • pass an online test to get a flyer ID if you want to fly a drone or model aircraft
  • register for an operator ID if you’re responsible for a drone or model aircraft
  • label any drones and model aircraft you’re responsible for with your operator ID.
update: meant to add the address but forgot ,so here it is:

 
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nofear01

Active Member
Thanks, can we do this now, or do we have to wait for the 'go-live' date?
 

rickyt

Active Member
Taken from the CAA website:

Registration mandatory from: 30 November 2019

The UK’s new Drone and Model Aircraft Registration and Education Scheme will go live on 5 November 2019 (please note that you cannot register before this date).

There will be two elements to the online system.

We will all have to wait till Bon Fire night !
 

mooperman

Distinguished Member
Taken from the CAA website:

Registration mandatory from: 30 November 2019

The UK’s new Drone and Model Aircraft Registration and Education Scheme will go live on 5 November 2019 (please note that you cannot register before this date).

There will be two elements to the online system.

We will all have to wait till Bon Fire night !
shouldve made it until end of Dec before mandatory in my opinion... i expect the site to get hammered in the next couple of weeks.
 

rickyt

Active Member
Well , nearly the 5th Nov ....registration day . Who's going to be the first to register ? I fancy stopping up tonight and register at 1 second past midnight just to get a registration number of 0000000000000000000001.

update: Waste of time , still not live . Typical . So , registration is sometime on the 5th Nov ,supposedly and will be at : UK Civil Aviation Authority [supposedly]
 
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mooperman

Distinguished Member
Well , nearly the 5th Nov ....registration day . Who's going to be the first to register ? I fancy stopping up tonight and register at 1 second past midnight just to get a registration number of 0000000000000000000001.

update: Waste of time , still not live . Typical . So , registration is sometime on the 5th Nov ,supposedly and will be at : UK Civil Aviation Authority [supposedly]

im gonna register - it's only £9 a year and i dont really have a big problem with it. Will give it a go at the weekend.
 

rickyt

Active Member
I dont have a problem with registering either ,not sure if it will make much difference tbh. But is'nt it typical of UK organisations ,dates and deadlines are never on time .......it's 9-30 now on the 5th Nov 2019 and the website is still not live. Reading the figures on how much this so called "registration" was going to cost to setup and run seemed horendously high ,hope it is'nt just one big "white elephant".
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
I don’t fly FPV but interested to hear what you guys that do think.

If you read the CAA ANO or the guidelines on the CAA’s drone website, it categorically states that the pilot must maintain line of sight with the aircraft at all times and rules out the use of aids such as binoculars and vision goggles.

Read as it is written that unambiguously says that flying FPV is no long permitted. So I asked about this on a model aircraft forum and they pointed me at ORS4


which is an addendum that cover FPV.

Two things occur to me though

1) what a mess of a system where you read apparently stand alone documents only to find out that there are amendments scattered about the place.

2) even though this allows FPV it mandates that there must be a dedicated spotter who maintains line of sight with the aircraft at all times.

So this mean that flying out of line of sight is now illegal.

And question to those that fly FPV - how often in the past have you flown with a dedicated spotter.

If everyone obeys the law this seems a massive change to FPV.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
I don’t fly FPV but interested to hear what you guys that do think.

If you read the CAA ANO or the guidelines on the CAA’s drone website, it categorically states that the pilot must maintain line of sight with the aircraft at all times and rules out the use of aids such as binoculars and vision goggles.

Read as it is written that unambiguously says that flying FPV is no long permitted. So I asked about this on a model aircraft forum and they pointed me at ORS4


which is an addendum that cover FPV.

Two things occur to me though

1) what a mess of a system where you read apparently stand alone documents only to find out that there are amendments scattered about the place.

2) even though this allows FPV it mandates that there must be a dedicated spotter who maintains line of sight with the aircraft at all times.

So this mean that flying out of line of sight is now illegal.

And question to those that fly FPV - how often in the past have you flown with a dedicated spotter.

If everyone obeys the law this seems a massive change to FPV.

Cheers,

Nigel
So far as I am aware, flying beyond visual was always illegal unless you had permission by exception to do so - which was quite rare. If you wore goggles, then you needed a spotter to keep a visual reference on the drone. Again, I am not aware this changed at any point.

The fact that lots of people ignored this - along with the rules about not flying over towns, near airports and from public parks with prohibitive byelaws didn't make it legal...

And I was on the site at 9.15 this morning and completed the registration for my drones. Thank god it's not £9 a drone, as with 4 over the weight limit it might have got a bit expensive.

I've now got to spend tonight getting all my air cadets registered as flyers so they can continue to fly them.

It's a 2 part registration, with flyers free and the fee only payable to get the registration number to write on your drones. It applies to all drones over 250g whether or not they have a camera and can record.
 

rickyt

Active Member
I allways understood the ruling that if you want to fly your drone using FPV . ie goggles etc you must have a spotter with you .As it happens I have a fly buddy and we dont normally fly our drones at the same time , He fly's -I spot and visa-versa. I agree if you cannot see your craft ,then this is where the danger can lie . Some drones can travel 2 or 3 miles , I cannot see mine at 300 or 400 metres , might be less . Dont know how they would police this , I mean what about an accidental flyaway. We need alot more things clarified.
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
I allways understood the ruling that if you want to fly your drone using FPV . ie goggles etc you must have a spotter with you .As it happens I have a fly buddy and we dont normally fly our drones at the same time , He fly's -I spot and visa-versa. I agree if you cannot see your craft ,then this is where the danger can lie . Some drones can travel 2 or 3 miles , I cannot see mine at 300 or 400 metres , might be less . Dont know how they would police this , I mean what about an accidental flyaway. We need alot more things clarified.
The majority of drones with FPV and flight planning also have flight logging. My PX4 based drone records a huge number of parameters including control signal loss and uncommanded attitude changes, so showing that it flew away would be easy to prove.

The upside of the registration is that if you lose your drone, the CAA will be able to reunite you with it if it is handed in.

Quite honestly, I can't see it making a lot of difference, as the rogue operators will still fly dangerously and won't both to register or display a registration on their drones.
 

rickyt

Active Member
Yes, my drones also record data using software apps on my phone/tablet except the early models I've had for years .ie XK Detect & Flying 3D. So flight data could be used in defence.
I agree ,there will still be incidents no doubt with unregistered drones , I mean , are the Police going to stop everyone and ask if you have a reg number or not?
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
So far as I am aware, flying beyond visual was always illegal unless you had permission by exception to do so - which was quite rare. If you wore goggles, then you needed a spotter to keep a visual reference on the drone. Again, I am not aware this changed at any point.

The fact that lots of people ignored this - along with the rules about not flying over towns, near airports and from public parks with prohibitive byelaws didn't make it legal...

And I was on the site at 9.15 this morning and completed the registration for my drones. Thank god it's not £9 a drone, as with 4 over the weight limit it might have got a bit expensive.

I've now got to spend tonight getting all my air cadets registered as flyers so they can continue to fly them.

It's a 2 part registration, with flyers free and the fee only payable to get the registration number to write on your drones. It applies to all drones over 250g whether or not they have a camera and can record.
Thanks for the info. I don't fly multi-rotors, fixed wing and helicopters and only at the club field. I a member of the BMFA and they have arranged to take drone registration payment along with the fees. They also have an arrangement that if you have one of their achievements (A or B certificate) then you don't need to do the competency test. I have never bothered with the BMFA achievements but will now consider doing my 'A' next year.

So I have to do the competency test, either the CAA one or the one that the BMFA are rolling out some point.

Timing wise it will probably have to be the CAA test but a question - can you go onto CAA flight and do the competency test (presume that will give me a Flyer ID) without having an Operator ID to associate it to.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
Yes, you can and I think that's the free bit. Takes 15 minutes and it's all common sense stuff.

If you are flying with the BMFA none of it will come as a shock
 

Johnmcl7

Distinguished Member
Any recommendations for labels to use with the drone? I'm thinking it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to put my name, address and contact number on it as well.
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
Any recommendations for labels to use with the drone? I'm thinking it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to put my name, address and contact number on it as well.
One thing to note is that the CAA say the labels should be removable because they can’t guarantee that your Operator ID won’t change year. If that is true that is one shocking system they are paying a fortune for.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

Johnmcl7

Distinguished Member
I'd want it removable any way in case I sell the drone or give it to someone else.
 

rickyt

Active Member
I'm also looking for a decent type of label . I do have a lable printer , one of those Brother printer's that takes a small roll of tape . For one, I cannot find it and two I would prefer a larger black label with larger white numbers/letters on it . I dont want it to peel of easily too . Anyone got any ideas ?

Update: Have just had a look on Ebay , lots of labels can be ordered , separate letters/numbers can be bought . But I'm now thinking of printing my ID using the PC printer [black on white] wrapping the result around a motor arm or leg and covering with clear wide parcel tape. It will be waterproof and removable .
 
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noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
The rules state:
Your operator ID must be:
  • visible without needing a special tool to remove or open part of your aircraft
  • clear and in block capitals taller than 3mm
  • secure and safe from damage
  • on the main body of the aircraft
  • easy to read when the aircraft is on the ground
So this means it needs to be attached to the top surface ideally.

I'm thinking of using these: Waterproof Labels (20, 100 or 500 Sheets) | A4Labels as they can be printed with a laser, are difficult to damage and relatively easy to remove as they are thick enough to peel off quite easily.
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
The label can be inside - that is a concession that was made following feedback from the scale model community.

Vague what is meant by a special tool, but consensus is that a screwdriver would be okay.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
I did wonder about that. On my Phantom my contact details are written inside the battery compartment and I intend to put the registration number in there as well.

My DIY 3d printed drone has plenty of space on the electronics cover, so no issue there, but my racing drone is a bit trickier as it's a skeleton with not much in the way of available surface for the label. Thinking under the battery - which is held in place with Velcro.

My mate who flies proper r/c aircraft is putting strips of silk inside his aircraft next to the r/c receiver wrapped around the servo wires. Easy to find and no added weight.
 

mooperman

Distinguished Member
im gonna be putting mine under the battery compartment as its a simple click in click out (mavic air).
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
im gonna be putting mine under the battery compartment as its a simple click in click out (mavic air).
Apparently, the CAA are back-pedalling and have refining the requirement as

"Where it is not possible to display your operator number on the outside of your drone or model aircraft, you may instead attach it on the inside- within a compartment that can easily be accessed by anyone, without the need for any tools or specialist equipment."

The BMFA have a meeting on the 14th Nov and will be opposing it, so it isn’t a dine deal yet but not holding my breath. The problem is that it will be very rare where it is not possible to put a label on the outside. So by that definition I suspect that you could not put it inside the battery compartment because you could stick it on the outside. I don’t care on my polystyrene acrowot but there will be many hobbyist with beautiful scale models who will not be happy at all.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
I doubt the CAA are too concerned about the scale models the real enthusiasts fly. It's the rogues with their programmable drones heading off into the wide blue yonder they are worried about!
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
I doubt the CAA are too concerned about the scale models the real enthusiasts fly. It's the rogues with their programmable drones heading off into the wide blue yonder they are worried about!
No they aren’t. I don’t believe we will ever see plod down at our flying club.

Mind you I doubt we will ever see plod stopping kids with them down at the park either.

But, if the rules end up saying that the label must be visible on the outside then we will be breaking the law if we don’t do it. Saying that we can ignore that because plod are never going to want to check our aircraft may be true but that doesn’t make okay.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

Liquid101

Distinguished Member
There’s been a lot of chatter about this in the forums and groups.

As a commercial operator, I welcome the introduction of a registration system to make users more accountable. There is now no excuse for people breaking regulations - you have effectively confirmed you understand them.

9 quid is a small price to pay. I expected it to be higher than that.

I feel slightly annoyed that I have to register again, despite paying considerably more for my commercial permissions. That said - it’s 9 quid.
 

rickyt

Active Member
Out of curiosity , I wonder how many people have not registered and have no intention of doing so. We have no way of knowing.
 

nheather

Distinguished Member
There’s been a lot of chatter about this in the forums and groups.

As a commercial operator, I welcome the introduction of a registration system to make users more accountable. There is now no excuse for people breaking regulations - you have effectively confirmed you understand them.

9 quid is a small price to pay. I expected it to be higher than that.

I feel slightly annoyed that I have to register again, despite paying considerably more for my commercial permissions. That said - it’s 9 quid.
Don’t worry all the honest pilots will eventually fall into line. The casual pilots, the irresponsible pilots, those intent on criminal on criminal activity, probably not.

People, especially the model aircraft community, are a bit miffed about a scheme that is practically un-policable.

So issues are

1) price. £9 isn’t a lot I agree but remember it started out at £16.50 and that was based on 170,000 register users paying for the annual upkeep. The worry is that there won’t be anything like that number of registrations so the price will get hiked (some say to £40) to cover the cost of the system.

2) who will register. Suspicion is that only those that already behave themselves and fly responsibly will register.

3) how will it help. Take the Gatwick case - if the drone existed, the pilot was already breaking enforceable laws. So why didn’t they prosecute. Oh yes, the combined might of the airport authorities, the police and the British Army couldn’t even get a photo let alone catch the drone or pilot. So imagine the pilot had been registered as an operator and a pilot and the drone correctly labelled how would that have helped.

4) model aircraft. Most people who are upset fly, model aircraft, line of site, at registered flying clubs, registered with flying organisations and insured. Generally we don’t fly what people perceive as drones, okay the definition has been broadened but all the legislation still have a multi-rotor drone flavour to them. You must maintain line of sight when flying - how the fudge else can we do it, that’s how we have to fly.

5) scale model aircraft. You have a beautiful scale model of a Spitfire, very accurate except now it has to have a stupid sticker on them.

So don’t worry, we will register, just a bit frustrated having to do something that we don’t see really applies to the way we fly and we can’t see will even be useful.

Cheers,

Nigel
 
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Johnmcl7

Distinguished Member
I've printed the ID on a handheld brother printer and put it on the side of the Mavic so it's clearly visible but the leg folders over it when stored which should stop it rubbing when it's being carried and less likely to come off.
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
Going off at a slight tangent, the flight controllers required to make a multi-rotor flyable can also bring advantages to fixed wing and helicopters as well. A mate who flies real radio control aircraft and I have been playing with the Pixhawk flight controller, using it for auto-pilot mission planning, return to home if lost from sight and runway line up. He flies a range of aircraft including an F-16 with proper gas turbine and finds the additional stability and safety of the flight controller relieves some of the apprehension when flying it, as it will safely return and circle above him at the flick of a switch and will line up on the centre line for landing, on the correct glide slope, just requiring him to do the final 10' of altitude - and we're working on some sensors to allow that as well.

He is planning to write his registration on a ribbon and attach it to the servo wire bundle visible through the canopy. This sounds like a sensible and fairly simple way to abide by the rules.
 

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