Down-mix LFE channel or get a subwoofer?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by FennerMachine, Sep 1, 2013.

  1. FennerMachine

    FennerMachine
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    109
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +3
    My system is in my signature.
    I have no subwoofer. Music from CD's sounds good but movies lack bass.
    Is there any way of getting the 751BD and Denon to mix the LFE channel into the front 2 speakers whilst using the analogue outputs from the 751BD or do I need a subwoofer?
     
  2. Jase

    Jase
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2001
    Messages:
    10,865
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Ratings:
    +2,902
    Ideally you need a decent subwoofer to get the full effect of movies etc. Presumably you're connected via analog to the EXT Decoder Inputs on your Denon? The CA player should have some sort of speaker setup/bass management menu where you can tell it you have no subwoofer. For starters set the Fronts to Large, No Sub and the Centre & Surrounds to Small and see how that sounds.

    Bear in mind the Denon only has individual channel level controls on it's EXT In's and no processing or bass management so this has to be done at the source.

    Alternatively, connect via Coaxial or Optical and let the Denon decode the core legacy track instead. In this case you'd configure it's speaker setup menu (if you haven't already).
     
  3. FennerMachine

    FennerMachine
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    109
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +3
    Thanks for the reply Jase.


    I'm using the analogue connections.
    I've tried setting the 751BD to no sub with the front 2 large and others small but it makes no difference. I've tried coaxial when using my PC to play blu-ray's but there was a significant drop in overall sound quality vs the analogue outputs from the sound card. I would imagine the same results with the 751BD.
     
  4. Jase

    Jase
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2001
    Messages:
    10,865
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Ratings:
    +2,902
    I'd try going direct from the player just to test it but if the results are not to your liking then you'll need a subwoofer. A decent sub adds a great deal so it's a good way to go. :)
     
  5. FennerMachine

    FennerMachine
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    109
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +3
    I’ll give it a go just to see what it sounds like. No harm in trying!
    With regards to a sub, is it possible or even a good idea to use high & low level inputs at the same time so I can use a sub with movies and music?
     
  6. Jase

    Jase
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2001
    Messages:
    10,865
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Ratings:
    +2,902
    Some subs (REL for example) will let you connect via both high and low level at the same time specifically for that purpose.

    Just to double-check. You're using the multi-channel analog outputs and not the standard left/right analog outs?
     
  7. FennerMachine

    FennerMachine
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    109
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +3
    I have the L/R outputs direct to the Quad 44 for CD’s and 6 cables to the Denon.
    I then have the pre outs from the Denon running to another input on the 44 for movies.
     
  8. Jase

    Jase
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2001
    Messages:
    10,865
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Ratings:
    +2,902
    So the Quad takes care of the Front Left/Right and the Denon powers the Centre and Surrounds?
     
  9. FennerMachine

    FennerMachine
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    109
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +3
    Yes.
    The Denon only powers 3 speakers.
    The Quad powers the 2 front speakers for both music and movies using a different input for both.
     
  10. Jase

    Jase
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2001
    Messages:
    10,865
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Ratings:
    +2,902
    Ok. Just getting a picture of how it's all connected. :)

    It's worth keeping an eye out for a subwoofer in the forum classifieds as good ones pop up on a regular basis. If you go for a new one then I'd check with the manufacturer that connecting via high and low level at the same time is ok.
     
  11. FennerMachine

    FennerMachine
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    109
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +3
    Gave it a bit of a testing this morning using the digital coaxial connection.

    Overall sounds as though there is more bass, I could possibly live with it until I get a larger room.

    I have done a few basic tests swapping between multi channel analogue and digital coaxial.

    I was a bit surprised by the overall sound quality via the coaxial.
    There are differences between the analogue & coax but the coax has the 0.1 channel going through it and is a bit louder which could be affecting my perception. It's difficult to tell much difference in overall sound quality. The decoding done by the Denon actually sounds more integrated across the front 3 speakers with better panning and surround effects. I think the overall sound quality is a bit cleaner using the multi channel analogue, it could be that the bass is underpinning the sound better via the Denon.

    I'm going to do a bit more testing over the next few days.
    I think I will be happy using the Denon doing the decoding though, at least until I get a larger room making a sub more worthwhile.
     
  12. Jase

    Jase
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2001
    Messages:
    10,865
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Ratings:
    +2,902
    The Denon is still more than capable when it comes to decoding 5.1. Whilst it can't decode the lossless soundtrack you should be getting the higher bit rate flavours of Dolby Digital & DTS. At least you're getting the LFE redirected to the front channels now. :)
     
  13. probedb

    probedb
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,655
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ratings:
    +180
    I'd try more playing about. My setup is probably lower spec than yours but I certainly don't feel I need a sub. I have the 5.1 out from the Oppo into the Denon's EXT-IN, setup as 5.1 on the Oppo with no sub, large fronts, small center and rears.

    It'll also depend on the size of your room I guess. Did you go through the setup on the 751BD using the pink (?) noise to calibrate the levels of everything?
     
  14. FennerMachine

    FennerMachine
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    109
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +3
    I tried setting up the 751BD with no subwoofer but it lacks bass.
    I used the 'pink' noise to test the speakers are at the correct levels.
    I think that it must be a limitation of the CA player.
    Using the Denon to do the decoding seems to fix the problem and I now have enough bass for my size room.
    Obviously a good subwoofer will go deeper and give me the full 5.1 but I don't think I need it.
    I have demoed systems in the past both with & without a subwoofer but cannot fully remember the outcome!
    I've lived without a subwoofer for about 10 years, maybe I can for a few more!
     
  15. probedb

    probedb
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,655
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ratings:
    +180
    I don't think it's a limitation. If you disable the sub and use large speakers then all the bass is sent to the front large speakers. The 751BD is basically the same player as the Oppo so I'd assume it has the same setup.

    The likely hood is that your Denon is EQed better for your room, the 751BD output will have no equalization on it. That's assuming it has some sort of room setup on your Denon? Plus the DD/DTS mixes will be a little different than the lossless ones I'd guess.

    But either way, whichever way sounds best to you :)
     

Share This Page

Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice