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DOT by DOT Mode on Sharp LC-M3700

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by jackylad, Oct 23, 2004.

  1. jackylad

    jackylad
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    Hi All,

    I've recently bought a Sharp LC-M3700 monitor for my HTPC. Now this screen is obviously a large LCD PC monitor not a LCD TV. So I was assured by Sharp support that as long as I was using a DVI-D to DVI-D connection I could get the screen to output a native resolution picture at 1366x768 (@60Hz). This was on the condition that my graphics card can support such a resolution. Well I easily managed to get a resolution set up via powerstrip at 1366x768 @ 60Hz using a Radeon 9600 graphics card. But when I try to set this resolution the screen says 'OUT OF RANGE' :mad:

    Does anyone know why it won't work?????

    The Sharp monitor has a DOT by DOT mode that I can use to display a fantastic 1280x768 picture, leaving an inch either side of the screen as black bars. It goes right to the top and bottom, so that's fine. I can also set the screen to 'Full Mode' which stretches the 1280x768 to fit full screen, but that shows a slight blur on screen fonts, not that bad mind but I'd rather not have it like that.

    Can anyone suggest a solution that would solve my DOT by DOT 1366x768 problem? :lease:

    Cheers
     
  2. jgrg

    jgrg
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    Hi,

    That sounds very annoying. I think that most graphics cards and monitors these days support the VESA DDC standard.

    Quoting from a Linux manual page "The Data Display Channel (DDC) transfers use the VESA BIOS Extensions (VBE) to retrieve information from monitors, including identification strings, supported sync ranges, available video modes, and video mode parameters".

    In practice this should mean that you are presented with a small list of modes "recommended" by the monitor, one of which should be its full native resolution. Does the monitor's name appear correctly in the Settings tab of the Windows Display Settings dialogue? If it does, that suggests that the DDC is working. It may be that powerstrip doesn't actually use the correct DDC settings, but the display settings dialogue will.

    Otherwise there might be an incompatibility between your graphic card's display drivers and the monitor. You could try installing new drivers, or borrowing a different graphics card.

    James
     
  3. ianh64

    ianh64
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    Based on past experience, I think it is a bit wishful thinking for manufacturers to specify items correctly in the EDID. From what I remember, the Sharp xxGD1E for example, specifies 1024x768 as its maximum screen resolution. I am assuming that the core functionality of the GD1E and the LC-M3700 is fairly common, so I would imagine the same to be true of the PC versions.

    My DVD manufacturer kindly decoded the EDID returned from my Loewe Xelos(panel resolution 1366x768 and supporting native resolution - confirmed by Loewe Germany). This basically results in an auto config mode of 1280x720p for NTSC material and 1024x768 for PAL. I override this and run 720p for both PAL and NTSC. Im waiting, fingers crossed, for a software fix to allow me to override the standard scaler resolutions.

    It went a bit like this:

    EDID Information
    ----------------

    Checksum passed
    Ver: 1.2
    Man ID: PNP
    Man Name: Unknown
    Product Code: 0x6442
    Product Serial No: 0x0
    Date Built: Year 2245 Week 0
    Display is: Digital
    Max Image Size: 92w x 51h cm
    Gamma: 120 (11900)
    Feature Support:
    - Display Type: RGB
    - Preferred Timing Mode

    Established Timings 1:
    - 640x 480 60Hz
    - 640x 480 72Hz
    - 640x 480 75Hz
    - 800x 600 56Hz
    - 800x 600 60Hz
    Established Timings 2:
    - 800x 600 72Hz
    - 800x 600 75Hz
    - 1024x 768 60Hz
    - 1024x 768 70Hz
    - 1024x 768 75Hz
    Established Timings 3:
    - None

    Standard Timings:
    - 1280x1024@60Hz
    - 848x477@60Hz
    - 848x477@75Hz

    Monitor Descriptor Blocks: (0)
    [2] DTD contains Monitor Name: LOEWE.
    [3] DTD contains Monitor Name: XELOS
    [4] DTD contains Monitor Name: SL
     
  4. Norvegia

    Norvegia
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    :oops:
     
  5. jackylad

    jackylad
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    So then whats the maximum res I can use? Is 1280x768 all I'm going to get?

    :(

    Could it be possible to havea PC resolution of 1360x768 or something like that?

    Cheers
     
  6. jgrg

    jgrg
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    I think that Sharp should help you to solve your problem. If they can't, you should be able to get your money back because the product you have bought does not work as advertised.
     
  7. jgrg

    jgrg
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    Oh dear. How depressing.
     
  8. asm495

    asm495
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    Try 1368x768. I think that on almost all graphics cards the X resolution needs to be wholly divisible by 8. See this for more info...

    http://www.entechtaiwan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20

    You'll lose a pixel at either side but I think it will be possible to live with that. :) You will most likely need to use Powerstrip to get it to work... http://entechtaiwan.net/util/ps.shtm

    Out of interest, where did you get your screen from and how much did you pay?
     
  9. jackylad

    jackylad
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  10. jackylad

    jackylad
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    This is the email I got when I asked if the screen will take a PC resolution at the screens native resolution of 1366x768.

    My Email
    Can someone inform me of whether the LC-M3700K 37” WIDESCREEN LCD MONITOR will accept a DVI-I connection at it's native resolution or 1366 x 768? I intend to use this monitor for HCPC purposes.

    Sharps Answer
    The M3700 has a DVI-D input not a DVI-I input. DVI-D is a digital only input. DVD-I will take a digital or an analogue signal.

    My Next Email
    So as DVI-I does both Analogue and Digital output, does that mean it will work with that screen at 1366 x 768 if I'm using a DVI-I to DVI-D lead?

    Sharps Response
    Yes, providing the PC is giving a digital output not an analogue output.


    So, I bought the screen as you will already know from the previous posts.! :thumbsup:


    Now the screen says 'OUT OF RANGE' when I send a 1366x768 resolution to the screen. (please note: I know that forum members have explained why this is the case and that it is not possible to do. However, Sharp never told me that at the begining.)

    So I sent this email and got the following response:

    My Email
    I've now have this screen (see previous emails below) and it won't take a 1366x768 resolution even though my graphics card can output this resolution! It states 'OUT OF RANGE'. I'm doing everything as your manual tells me. 1366x768 @ 60hz and nothing works. The best I can get so far is 1280x768 full screen or with a better picture quality using dot by dot mode.

    Can someone explain to me how I get a dot by dot picture 1366x768 like the manual states you can have.

    My graphics card is a Radeon 9600 with DVI, and I'm using a DVI-D to DVI-D cable to connect the two together.

    Sharps New Response
    The LCD you are refering to has a resolution of 1366 x 768 this is a HDTV resolution. The closest you will be able to this resolution using a PC is 1360 x 768 as 1366 is not devisable by 8 1360 is. I would have to suggest you speak to Radeon Graphics, the manufacturer of the graphics card you are using.

    I hope this helps you


    Well not really, you could have told me that before I bought it! I don't suppose it matters now anyway. But, who said customer service in the UK was dead! :nono:

    Well done Sharp but at least you can even acknowledge that your screen can take a PC input unlike Philips who just can't comment on PC resolutions.

    I give up.....
     
  11. asm495

    asm495
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    Try the 1368, I'm fairly sure that will work. If it were me I'd much rather lose a pixel each side in overscan rather than have 3 pixels of black on each side. Alternatively you could look into Matrox Parhelia graphics cards which apparently can do 1366 natively - they're fairly pricey cards (£200) however with bad 3D performance compared to the latest ATI and NVidias.
     
  12. jackylad

    jackylad
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    I'll look into them. So if it has bad 3D performance does that mean its only games that will suffer?
     
  13. asm495

    asm495
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    It will only be a problem if you want to run the very latest 3D games - the card first came out two years ago now. If you're mainly worried about just getting the image perfect then it's no problem. I think it has sub-9700Pro performance which will be good enough for most games a year or two old.

    So you will end up paying a lot of money for 2 year old technology just to avoid losing a pixel at either side of the screen. Personally I wouldn't bother about it and I've got no practical experience with it to know for 100% sure if it will work. If you do decide to get one then you'd be taking quite a gamble. If you were that keen then it might be worth speaking to Matrox directly about it.
     
  14. ianh64

    ianh64
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    Does anyone know whether powerstrip will work with my Sony laptop that uses a Neomagic MagicMedia 256XL chipset. I have searched the powerstrip forums and checked the web pages but found nothing. I would rather not install if it will not be supported.

    It would be useful to connect the VGA out to a DVI-I input or my Loewe Xelos to confirm native operation.

    Thanks

    -Ian
     
  15. APC

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    AFAIK you don't get true DVI quality by going from VGA to DVI. VGA is analogue, DVI is digital. I have seen VGA to DVI converters (they have to be powered), but haven't tried one. I would guess that the only advantage they offer is that you can use them if your display doesn't have a VGA input. Knowing how bad all of these issues are, you'll probably find that the converter puts a spanner in the works somewhere. :(

    If the TV has a VGA input, you should use that with your lappy.
     
  16. ianh64

    ianh64
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    I just want to confirm that my screen it will take native. I normally use HDMI/DVI but I can't manually configure my scaler for 1366x768, just 720p and 1080i. I just want to confirm native both at 50Hz and 60Hz operation before I hassle the manufacturers to give me the ability to override the incorrect EDID data - VGA analogue via the DVI-I will be just fine for this purpose.

    -Ian
     
  17. APC

    APC
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    I see. I take it that the Loewe doesn't have a VGA input. A pity.

    I'd be interested to hear how you get on with a VGA-DVI conversion and Powerstrip. :eek:

    Good luck!
     
  18. ianh64

    ianh64
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    The Loewe PC input is via the DVI-I connector both analogue and digital. Unfortunately, the VGA connector on the back is for a Loewe add-on only.

    I've got an old VGA to DVI-I cable so will probably give it a try anyway.
     
  19. ianh64

    ianh64
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    Im writing this on my Xelos as we speak using a VGA to DVI-I cable. Quality is surprisingly good, especially at 1024x768.

    Unfortunately I could not get into the advanced timings section of powerstrip. I guess the Neomagic drivers of the Sony Laptop do not support this so I could not muck around with custom resolutions even though I did build a device driver for the Xelos. So my experiment has failed for the time being.

    Sorry Jacky for hijackying your thread. I was hoping to have helped by getting something working on my Loewe.

    -Ian
     
  20. jackylad

    jackylad
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    No problem! :)

    I still haven't tried the 1368x768 option myself yet!
     
  21. jackylad

    jackylad
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    Wey hey!!!!!!!

    I've got my screen to display at 1366x768!!!!!

    Full screen.

    Perfect quality.

    At last.

    I had to set the resolution to 1368x768 and I must be loosing 1 pixel either side but it makes no difference at all. The clarity is great especially on fonts, as they are normally not that good on a scaled screen.

    The monitor actually pops up a small noticifation of "display mode 1366x768" when you first switch the pc on so that must be due to it thinking that it is actually 1366x768 thats being sent.

    Who knows, who cares, not me, it works.

    Cheers asm495 & Ianh64 for your advice. So now onto installing MCE 2005.

    Thanks again and if you're a HTPC user this screen is first class.

    :thumbsup:
     
  22. ianh64

    ianh64
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    Jackylad

    Congratulations. I bet that must be a relief to you.

    Would you mind posting your powerstrip settings. Also, have you tried 50Hz by chance?

    Assuming you have native at 60Hz, what is DVD replay like? Any sign of judder, especially on pans?

    -Ian
     
  23. jackylad

    jackylad
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    DVD playback is great. I've just installed MCE 2005 and can only get DVD's running outside of MCE at the moment but they play perfectly. The screen is set to 1368x768 @ 60Hz. I've not tested SKy TV yet as I'm waiting for a PVR-350 to arrive.

    I'll let you know how that goes and hopefully I'll get the DVD's playing in MCE too.

    Cheers
     
  24. ianh64

    ianh64
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    So no judder, due to 50Hz to 60Hz transcode with PAL discs when panning - Its a smooth pan?
     
  25. jackylad

    jackylad
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    I've only tried to play a dvd through powerdvd 5 and windvd 5 and I couldn't notice any picture problems at all. If they should be a judder, it beats me why there isn't.

    Haven't tried to set the screen to 50Hz yet or played sky TV through it. I'll let you know.

    One thing that was different was the aspect ratio of a Star Wars DVD, using TT it was a much wider picture and on PowerDVD & WinDVd it wasn't as wide a picture. I don't know if that's got anything to do with anything though????
     
  26. StormReflex

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    Hello,

    So JackyLad you recommend this monitor then ? Im after one solely as a HTPC setup only, to sit in my living room for general TV use, DVDs and surfing, how does the monitor actually look ? Does it look awesome ?

    Cheers
     
  27. Member 55145

    Member 55145
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    displays are only detected on boot up, thats why it wasnt working before, you need to plug in the cables then turn on your pc then the pc will get the config from the monitor, its how all plug and play monitors work now and why monitors dont need drivers anymore.

    as for upscaling of dvds from 50hz to 60 hz it doesnt work like that, technically pal dvds are 50 hz interlaced anyway because they are interlaced

    think of it as one of those old victorian animation wheels, there gap you look thru can be going past 60 times a second, but the image behind it can move however fast it likes
     

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