Don't judge, speakers or sub?

Wellingutd

Novice Member
I have recently set myself up with an Atmos system having acquired Marantz SR7015 and installed some ceiling speakers. The setup i have is 5.1.4 but (and please don't judge) it is matched with my old Tannoy FX speakers on the floor, where the centre i "upgraded" little while ago to the Tannoy Mercury 7c. The sub i have is the Tannoy from the 5.1 but doesn't work and the ceiling speakers are Tannoy CVS4. I went big on my amp consuming most of the budget (don't judge) and want to slowly build up the connecting kit. Wont touch the ceiling speakers but everything else is free game. I am torn between building up the speakers and then the sub, or going sub then speakers. My initial budget is £200 and for speakers willing to go second hand. Sub probably won't want to take the risk. My only other requirement, is that my wife doesn't want overwhelming large freestanding bulky speakers and in turn I've considered the Cambridge Audio Minxs which review well. The room is roughly 5m by 3m.
Thoughts.. sub? If so, what proposed that wont have too much overwhelming deep bass. OR speakers, if so, what ones? Thanks.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The sub is presumably a passive one and you will need to upgrade to a powered unit. Overwhelming bass is easily controlled by using the volume adjustment on the Marantz providing you have a good position for it and have it properly EQ'd into your system by Audyssey which does do a pretty good job of bass management.

With budget constraints in mind I would get the sub first. The .1 LFE channel is so important when watching movies. Secondly I'd look to upgrade the front three speakers. To give members a better chance of helping you a photograph of your current set up of the front speakers would help.
 

Wellingutd

Novice Member
Thank you. Really helpful.

The Sub being powered and therefore controlled by the amp is sensible. Does that mean, for the sake of my neighbour's, I can get the amp to reduce the big deep "booms" (as my wife calls it)? What would you recommend in the price range and I've read on forums here that it is not reccomended to buy second hand for subs?

As for photos. Let me do that for the front setup.
 

Rev0Knuckle

Active Member
I've got the same AVR and have just purchased a SVS1000 Pro to go with it. If your room isn't on the massive size is a fantastic sub. The bass is excellently controlled by the Marantz and there is no booming.

I previously had a cheaper Q Acoustics 2070 sub and that used to make the lamp shades shake with it's uncontrolled output, which was pretty annoying to be honest. I didn't realise how much better a more expensive sub is. The SVS is massively better, partly due to out being a sealed cabinet but also in general. Bass is deep and clean. Highly recommended. I don't think the new pro version would fit within your budget but the outgoing SVS1000 might do if you can find one.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I have recently set myself up with an Atmos system having acquired Marantz SR7015 and installed some ceiling speakers. The setup i have is 5.1.4 but (and please don't judge) it is matched with my old Tannoy FX speakers on the floor, where the centre i "upgraded" little while ago to the Tannoy Mercury 7c. The sub i have is the Tannoy from the 5.1 but doesn't work and the ceiling speakers are Tannoy CVS4. I went big on my amp consuming most of the budget (don't judge) and want to slowly build up the connecting kit. Wont touch the ceiling speakers but everything else is free game. I am torn between building up the speakers and then the sub, or going sub then speakers. My initial budget is £200 and for speakers willing to go second hand. Sub probably won't want to take the risk. My only other requirement, is that my wife doesn't want overwhelming large freestanding bulky speakers and in turn I've considered the Cambridge Audio Minxs which review well. The room is roughly 5m by 3m.
Thoughts.. sub? If so, what proposed that wont have too much overwhelming deep bass. OR speakers, if so, what ones? Thanks.

Ouch. You did just the opposite spending huge amount (1700£) for av-receiver and now looking cheap tiny speakers with cheap subwoofer. Where as speakers should have taken the most budget. :(

You won´t get any decent sub for 200£ i´m afraid and you are correct looking for new with amp warranty is the wisest thing. You have quite mixed bag now with the Tannoy FX satellite speakers on floor (should be on stands/wall mounted/top of av-cabinet closer to seated ear height) and then you have Mercury 7C which is considerably larger. Naturally best thing would be to find matching front pair of speakers and the 7.2 model would be that. I found one with stands. Not sure is the finish same to your 7C or would wife consider these too bulky?

Another on ebay:

If you feel those are too large then you need to consider some satellite system. Small wife friendly would be Monitor Audio Radius 90 and Radius 200. Kef E301/HTS3001 (used), B&W M1 mk2..

For the subwoofer as @Rev0Knuckle mentioned the SVS SB1000 would be ideal for small room. It´s very compact in size (33x33x33cm) with high build quality, performs great for such small box and SVS has one of the best support/service in business. 5year amp warranty gives peace of mind. AVForums advertiser has one of the "old" non Pro models still going for low price if you could consider upping your budget, you need to act fast though as it´s last one. Worth every penny.

It was reviewed here and there is more if you google.

If there is no way you can`t spend that much / SVS does not pass wife then BK Electronics has few small cheaper models which come in different wood veneer finishes. BKE has built subwoofers since 1992 and they are done at UK Essex. Internet direct business model so price is low!



 

Wellingutd

Novice Member
That is amazing, and yes I made the cardinal sin. Going big on receiver without the speakers. Good idea with front speakers to match the 7c. The issue for my wife is more large bulkly speakers and trailing cables...persistence beats resistance i find ;) I think the ones you proposed suit nicely and doesn't mean I throw out 2 of my Tannoys. All that said, if I get the two front speakers will the sound be concentrated there? Would the Tannoys i have still compliment nicely for rear and side giving good spread?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Yes i think it would be then fairly balanced system regarding the speakers, still quite cheap but hey you got to start from somewhere. The rest would be up to placing the speakers optimally to hear them at their best. You will get good idea below link for the angles recommended, of course you do what is possible in your room. I would push the front main channels (Tannoy 7.2) about 2-2,5m apart so the front three aren´t squeezed too close together, perhaps little toe in toward listeners. Center channel should be placed close to seated ear height (tricky with tv) and in free air, not inside av-unit which affects the sound quality. You can angle the speaker shooting upwards with easy trick, buy two rubber wedges (door stoppers) under the speaker each side, then the speaker shoots more toward where your ears are. Surround speakers should be placed on seated ear height as you have ceiling speakers for Atmos. Preferably not too close to listeners either! Subwoofer i would place on front corner or 1/4 width of front wall depending where your speakers are. The Marantz has good room correction for subwoofer too so it shouldn`t sound boomy when placed in corner, you do get bit of boundary gain from there. If possible don´t place speakers in corner and leave little bit space behind them and front wall. Do check after running the Audussey setup that you have basic settings correct. You can post them here when you have done that so we can check if there is something that needs tweaking. Also check behind subwoofer before running setup that the knobs are set correct. Again you can give us heads up before do run it...


My money would be on that SB1000, but if the finish doesn`t work out and wife requires some wood finish to suit room decor then BK models are good option! Good quality subwoofer will support your system big time and can only make it sound better. It`s bit shame wife is "allergic" to deep bass as you are losing quite a bit of enjoyement with latest blockbuster flicks. Still the Sb1000 caliber sub will suprise you.
 

Wellingutd

Novice Member
Thank you. Sadly, don't think the budget can stretch to SB1000 and therefore looking at BK Electronics. However,is this mistake and worth me saving. Is it a marked better sub? If not, for BK.. what model recommend for a smaller subtle sub out the three proposed? Also, for small sized front left and right speakers. As I am going to do some saving, would you stick with Tannoys or add a little bit more to get a marked step up in another make but discrete in size?
 

Wellingutd

Novice Member
Also....additional random question. My previous sub woofer was kept within the TV cabinet and therefore in a housing. I prefer to have open in one corner as said. Prior to carpet going in, I put spare speaker cable under so can connect to receiver coming up on front two corners of my room. I would like to utilise this for subwoofer. Can you use speaker cabling for subwoofers?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Also....additional random question. My previous sub woofer was kept within the TV cabinet and therefore in a housing. I prefer to have open in one corner as said. Prior to carpet going in, I put spare speaker cable under so can connect to receiver coming up on front two corners of my room. I would like to utilise this for subwoofer. Can you use speaker cabling for subwoofers?
You will need a single RCA from any AV amp to the sub for LFE in a 5.1.
 

Rev0Knuckle

Active Member
Also....additional random question. My previous sub woofer was kept within the TV cabinet and therefore in a housing. I prefer to have open in one corner as said. Prior to carpet going in, I put spare speaker cable under so can connect to receiver coming up on front two corners of my room. I would like to utilise this for subwoofer. Can you use speaker cabling for subwoofers?
From what you've stated about your setup you'll be needing a subwoofer cable to connect your prospective subwoofer to the LFE out on the AVR.

As for which sub, short of 2nd hand you wont find much better value than BK's.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thank you. Sadly, don't think the budget can stretch to SB1000 and therefore looking at BK Electronics. However,is this mistake and worth me saving. Is it a marked better sub? If not, for BK.. what model recommend for a smaller subtle sub out the three proposed? Also, for small sized front left and right speakers. As I am going to do some saving, would you stick with Tannoys or add a little bit more to get a marked step up in another make but discrete in size?

Not too long ago one member changed from BK XLS200 to SB1000 cause he felt the low end was underwhelming for action/scifi movies. The change was noticeable with SVS he was happy. BK has larger models and the 399£ costing P12-300SB would be roughly similar to SVS, but it comes with larger cabinet either in DF or FF driver orientation which also means different cabinet dimensions so compare them. SB1000 is so darn small while offering 12" driver and in-room response down to 20hz, rarely available for such low price as new. The latest model SB1000 Pro costs 549£. When you compare the price of BK XLS200 (355£) to P12-300SB (399£) and what you get with the larger P12 it´s a no brainer if size isn´t issue.

Are you going to buy those Tannoy Mercury 7.2 speakers for now? They will be good step up from the small FX speakers you have and good match to 7C sharing identical drivers. The Mercury range is very old, i remember my friend had some version of them when we were young. Tannoy is also one of the oldest speaker manufacturers. Quality products no doubt.

When you partner the system with good subwoofer it will make it sound even better! That is why i always recommend to spend bit more and go for slightly better one than thought first. You will certainly hear the difference example BK Gemini II and BK P12 / SVS SB1000. Doesn´t even need to crank the system loud, it will be evident. If you go smaller speakers in future you want to have good woofer to support them. If you go cheap now i can almost promise you will upgrade it later. Save once, spend twice. Up to you. If you have secure income then you could also consider finance as in pay monthly. Then you can choose more freely the latest model from SVS example.

As for future would need to know what is small enough for the speakers. Something like Monitor Audio Radius are really small with real wood veneer (walnut) and satin white/gloss black. Also the Apex range is quite compact, the center channel is wide but has low depth (10cm) and can be wall mounted same as A10 (table stand works as wall bracket too). These models are very popular here at AVF within members. They also look very good which helps with WAF. You could start with Tannoys and when you want something better then look for new front three (LCR) first. Many has opted first to Radius and then later upgraded to Apexes. This hobby can make you "hungry" for upgrades so think carefully what you buy. Looking how much you spent for the receiver i would consider something in the Apex price class. Doesn´t have to be these clearly, just as an example:

 

dion 6

Well-known Member
Hi I've got 4 x radius 90 and a radius 200 centre and they are beautiful looking speakers which keeps the wife happy but as Gasp3621 said think carefully before you buy the apex speakers are a step up and very good looking as well but unfortunately at the time out of my budget
 

Wellingutd

Novice Member
My goodness the APEX are stunning and they would be a big step up from where I am. Best get saving.

I am going to go sub first but wondering if should hold, saving for SVS compared to BK. The SVS link from American Audio. I've not come across them before, are they UK based and anyone have experience on customer service? Hesitant purchasing new at £400+ if customer service is questionable for any issues over next few years.
 

Wellingutd

Novice Member
You will need a single RCA from any AV amp to the sub for LFE in a 5.1.
As I already have the spare speaker cables going under carpet to front two corners, can I utilise that or does it have to be a RCA? Otherwise sub space is difficult. See photo with old dead Tannoy sub on left.
20210324_174450.jpg
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
My goodness the APEX are stunning and they would be a big step up from where I am. Best get saving.

I am going to go sub first but wondering if should hold, saving for SVS compared to BK. The SVS link from American Audio. I've not come across them before, are they UK based and anyone have experience on customer service? Hesitant purchasing new at £400+ if customer service is questionable for any issues over next few years.

Few members have bought from them, they are AVF advertiser. Chris is also writing here @AmericanAudio and the idea was to build the company larger offering certain US brands not available in UK/EU. So they should be here long time. If you buy SVS product you don´t need to worry about support/service ever! Karma-AV is behind SVS for UK. Notice the SB1000 is final one (old model).

When you go their site there pops up window "
Sign Up to our AMERICAN AUDIO CLUB and get a

5% discount code for all your orders in 2021"
 

gibbsy

Moderator
It is possible to connect speaker wire to RCA. Plenty of DIY videos on the Tube. Never done it myself.
 

Wellingutd

Novice Member
It is possible to connect speaker wire to RCA. Plenty of DIY videos on the Tube. Never done it myself.
That is really good to hear. I'll look it up, thank you. SBS model now sold and liking more and more the BK lineup. Specially the Platinum P12300-SB
What is difference in FF and DF? I have a concrete floor...does that make a difference? If can, I will put the sub in corner of the room. Also, is it a marked step up from Gemini 2 and still suit a small living room.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
No difference between FF and DF. Bass is omnidirectional and both will output bass exactly the same. Some people prefer FF on a carpeted floor. Some prefer DF if they have small children or dogs. Either way performance is exactly the same.
 

AmericanAudio

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Unfortunately both our open box SB1000's have gone now.

But keep an eye on Audiovisualonline as they often have damaged carton stock. I'll see what i can get too.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Also, is it a marked step up from Gemini 2 and still suit a small living room.
Yes without doubt it is! I had Gem II and have heard the very similar BK XXLS400. No contest! Worth every penny (P12)! Notice that you need to call about availability as they are still out. Drivers coming from US probably, some hold up there.
 

Wellingutd

Novice Member
So since last writing, I've saved me pennies and decided SVS is the way BUT there is the SVS SB1000 and SVS PB1000. If I consider Richer Sounds there is a £70 lower price on the PB1000 with a lower frequency (which will hopefully not awake the moans from neighbours) - Am I missing something? Is the SB1000 a far better piece of kit?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
So since last writing, I've saved me pennies and decided SVS is the way BUT there is the SVS SB1000 and SVS PB1000. If I consider Richer Sounds there is a £70 lower price on the PB1000 with a lower frequency (which will hopefully not awake the moans from neighbours) - Am I missing something? Is the SB1000 a far better piece of kit?

You wanted sub that doesn´t produce too much deep bass/rumble for neighbours sake i assume so you would be better with the new SB1000 Pro in that case.

I would recommend to buy from forum advertisers. You typically get 10% discount if you mention that you are AVForums member. This would put the price of the new Pro model near the old one so no reason to consider that! Gloss finish will cost bit more.

 

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