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Don't forget - 100 Greatest Cartoons - Tonight at 8pm!

Discussion in 'TV Show Forum' started by PoochJD, Feb 27, 2005.

  1. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    Hi,

    I know these programmes are always contentious, and some are even quite rubbish, but I would like to remind people to watch Channel 4's "100 Greatest Cartoons" tonight, between 8pm and Midnight!

    Interviews with Matt Groening, Tim Burton, and many other luminaries of the animation world, will be included, as well as the British viewers choice of their all-time favourite animation, be it a film, a short, or a series.

    I think "The Simpsons" will be Number One, but that's just a guess! I can't see too many other, (more esoteric), animations getting into the Top 100, otherwise I would like to see some of Hayao Miyazaki's works getting into the Top 10, and thrashing the crap out of Disney!


    Pooch
     
  2. MartinImber

    MartinImber
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    Hayao Miyazaki is in the top ten

    results on BBC news site

    I did vote about 10 times with Pixar and Anime chosen!
     
  3. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    Evening,

    Well, I've just watched all four hours of the "100 Greatest Cartoons", and I thought I'd render my verdict on the show. 

    Firstly, I think Channel 4 made a big error in titling the show "100 Greatest Cartoons". I personally felt it should really have been called "100 Greatest Animations", as I feel that labelling some of the better animations they screened as mere "cartoons", was an insult. :lesson:

    Anyway, I digress. On the whole, and in comparison with other similarly themed "100 Greatest…" shows, this wasn't as bad as I had expected. Jimmy Carr was reasonably restrained as the host, and thankfully, didn't make too many dubious comments about the winners in the chart. The 100 winners, were reasonably good - on the whole - including some choices that brought back plenty of nostalgic memories for me. The Number One choice was no surprise really, but then again, with the BBC News website posting the Top Ten some 24 hours previously, it wasn't difficult to find out who would win, if you wanted official confirmation. (They posted an article listing the Top 10 winners, as well as others in the countdown, at around 3:30am this morning! Bloody idiots! :mad: )

    There were some interesting omissions: where were animations like "Ulysses 31", "The Mysterious Cities Of Gold" and other similar French/European co-productions from the early to mid 1980's? :confused: What about "Bagpuss", "Trumpton", "Camberwick Green", "Postman Pat", "Morph", "Dogtanian And The Three Muskehounds", "An American Tail", "Garfield", and other classic shows/films, especially when you had oddities in the countdown like "Wait Till Your Father Gets Home" and "Bod" in there.

    As for the negatives, how many of you didn't have a clue as to who the vast majority of interviewees were?! I know I didn't know most of them. And why were mostly comedians chosen, and unfunny ones at that? Why didn't they get some real interviewees, like Jonathan Ross, Helen McCarthy, Alex Cox, or the editors of "Empire", or "Sight And Sound" to offer some real insight into the selections? People who actually might know what the :censored: they were talking about?! :( Most of the people who were included were nobodies, including Gigi - the lady who reads out the winning numbers on the BBC1 National Lottery Show; the editor of "Viz" magazine, Paul somebody-or-other who used to host "The Big Breakfast"! All of them, were just complete non-entities, in my opinon.

    This could, and should, have been so much more. Channel 4, (who have done a lot for animation over the past 20 years or so), should really have tried a lot harder to make this more of an event, and less of a list, spiced up with clips.

    Lastly, the next idiot celebrity who thinks that "Urotsukidoji: Legend Of The Overfiend" is purely about sex and violence, obviously has never seen the film, either in the cut UK version, or the uncut US/Japanese versions! The two idiot animators who did comment on it, just stuck to the standard responses, that the film was full of violent sexual assaults on women, and it took Jonathan Clements to give a reasonable response and correct them. :mad:

    Oh well, maybe one day, a terrestrial channel will do a proper series on the history and importance of animation… and not stick to American titles and Disney films! :rolleyes:

    Overall, not half as good as it should have been, but better than most of the recent "countdown" style shows!


    Pooch
     
  4. Garrett

    Garrett
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    Whilst wondering why the likes of Ulysses 31were not in the countdown I think Wait Till Your Father Gets Home deserved to be in there, for its time it was the Simpson’s and Family Guy.
    As you say Pooch on the title I came in late and saw Wallace and Gromit and though that’s not a cartoon.

    For those that missed it the full list is here.

    I would also say Family Guy is far, far funnier than The Simpson’s.
     
  5. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    There was Agnes Poirier (the French film critic from Liberation) who easily has the sexiest accent on the planet so it wasn't all bad :thumbsup:.

    Could see merit in most of the choices although I would add Mask and Fist of the Northstar into the suprise ommissions.
     
  6. Gary D

    Gary D
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    i thought it was a travesty - they should never have included films in a chart. i'm not going to comment on the positions within the chart as that is merely subjective.

    but all in all i was very disappointed.


    Gary
     
  7. dynamic turtle

    dynamic turtle
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    Where the hell was FOTNS????????

    Glad to see Miyazaki in the top ten and Ren & Stimpy in the top twenty though.

    I can only assume Iron Giant was an accident :rolleyes:

    Also, where the hell was Ulysees 31??

    DT
     
  8. Shady

    Shady
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    Does anyone know if this is being repeated as I missed the first 40 minutes and after looking at the top 100 I note that 'Wait 'til your Father gets home' was in there.

    I always remember this being on fairly late on ITV (around 9:30pm) and it reminds me of long summer holidays when you were allowed to stay up longer. It was only on occasionaly and used as a filler (or has TV warped my poor fragile mind)...

    Was there much on this entry, as it only just sneaked into the top 100 ?
     
  9. Lex

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    I know that trying to put them in some kind of order is nonsense anyway, but I was surprised at how low Beavis & Butthead, Futurama, and The Snowman were...

    And, as has been pointed out, if things like Wind in the Willows and Wallace and Grommit were in there, why not Trumpton or the Magic Roundabout? :confused:

    Also no Batman: the animated series or Ghost in the Shell which surprised me...
     
  10. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    Shady, (and everyone else)

    I'm pretty sure Channel 4 will repeat this very soon, but no details at the moment for an immediate repeat. As for "Wait Till Your Father Gets Home", it did get a reasonable amount of discussion time, compared to many other entries. This was odd. Some of the least likely entires got a lot of air-time, whilst some of the esoteric and popular choices got almost no air-time at all.

    It's amazing how a show like this can cause so much controversy. Having said that, I guess it's because the show is very much biased to what Channel 4 dictated it wanted the chart to consist of. When they asked for votes, they gave us 105 animations to choose from. Although voters did get the chance to name upto three other shows, there was no guarantee that any of those would be included. As such, this wasn't really a true and valid chart of the 100 greatest animations at all. It was actually the 100 greatest animations as pre-selected by Channel 4!

    Still, we did get 4 hours of discussion about animation on prime-time TV, and in my eyes, that's a great thing! :) Just a shame that Channel 4 have to stick their fingers in the pie, and not make the show a true reflection of what viewers like/dislike.

    I was also quite surprised that other shows like "Bananaman", "Button Moon", "Dick Spanner", "The Moomins", "The Wombles", and/or "The Smurfs" didn't get a mention. It was rather criminal to leave-out "The Magic Roundabout" though, as that deserved to be in the Top 10! It's popular with kids and adults alike, and certainly more liked than something like "Bod" would have been!

    Maybe we could have a "100 Worst Decisions, As Made By Channel 4" show next-time?! :rotfl: I'm sure that would get plenty of votes! :devil:


    Pooch
     
  11. pjclark1

    pjclark1
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    I never watch these now, they should be titled
    Top 100 ?????? as chosen by gay men and soft porn starletts

    not that I have anything against either, just a pretty restricted sample of the population to choose the top 100.
     
  12. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    Umm,

    On what basis, are you making that comment?! Seems a tad extreme! I know these lists are suspect to a certain degree, but to label them as being chosen by gay men and soft porn stars, seems mightily dubious, to say the least. :eek:


    Pooch
     
  13. pjclark1

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    The last time one of these was on (not last nights)
    some pals and I watched it, and it was tedious, so just for a laugh
    we wondered who all these attractive girls, with opinions, that we had never seen before, were.

    So we started typing the names into IMDB.com. What they had appeared in was far more fun than the top 100. Try it yourself!
     
  14. Joe Pineapples

    Joe Pineapples
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    They reminded me of the sort they have on the retro years programmes (i love 1973 etc), except less funny, and like you say, not actually offering anything constructive.

    btw - i missed the first 40 or so. Did they include the british cartoon (shown recently) about the Giant who lived behind a large wall, and shunned everyone outside, but ultimately ends up befriending some local children, and lets them play in his garden?. (sorry, cant remember the name of it).

    btw2 - also cant believe they missed out Mysterious Cities Of Gold.

    joe
     
  15. cityonfire

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    Erm The Magic Roundabout was there guys. Cannot remember where but it was there as the creators wife was going on about it was a load of pish about the supposed drug references
     
  16. dynamic turtle

    dynamic turtle
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    Christ on a motorbike! Completely forgot about GITS :eek:

    Also, I'm betting GITS 2 won't even get a cinema release in this country :mad: .
     
  17. Ed Selley

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    The acronym for Ghost in the Shell is not perhaps the most flattering way to describe it :rotfl:.
     
  18. Solomon Grundy

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    Transformers should have been higher up in my opinion...but I agree with most of you...who were the people asked for their expert opinions? I mean come on...Battle Of The Planets..."a breakthrough in anime"...come on!!!
     
  19. flipfella

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    Where was "The Mysterious Cities of Gold", that was a great show.

    Still waiting for a DVD release please....

    fliP.
     
  20. Lex

    Lex
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    oh yeah, #36. My bad - I missed that bit of the show cos some people knocked on the door! :mad: Missed Transformers too! :(
     
  21. Solomon Grundy

    Solomon Grundy
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    it was annoying, some nobody just said it was crap and they moved on...
     
  22. Richard Barham

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    I believe it was the general public who could vote on the Ch4 website by choosing their top 10.
     
  23. scrapbook

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    No accident, it is an outstanding film:smashin:
     
  24. PoochJD

    PoochJD
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    Hi,

    Actually, Richard, I think you'll find that "Who were the people asked for their expert opinion?" was referring to the so-called "celebrity comedians" who gave their opinions in the show! :lesson: Not the fact that British public voted from a select list of shows on the C4 website.

    Just clearing up a minor error. :)


    Pooch
     
  25. Azrikam

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    There were some nice surprises in the list, but it was a shambles, as expected. Animated films and TV shows should be given their own lists, as you can't really compare a 90-minute production with a multitude of shorts.

    Rhetorical questions:

    Since when did Pepe le Pew have his own cartoon? Road Runner, Pepe le Pew, Bugs Bunny, and Looney Tunes/Merrie Melodies are all one show, are they not?
    2DTV? Can someone pass along whatever they're smoking?
    For these kind of shows, do they just hire no-talent z-celebs, sit them down in a studio, and ask them their opinions on every topic the station is covering for the next year?
    What about the gay male porn stars, do they get two votes?
    Where's the Tick?
    Would the Incredibles have come in 9th if the voting was held in 2007?

    Non-rhetorical questions:
    I didn't see the show, which Spider-man did they induct? The 60s classic, or one of the "better animated but infinitely worse" ones that came later?
     
  26. Joe Pineapples

    Joe Pineapples
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    yes, complete with the theme song.....'does whatever a spider can'.....etc etc :smashin:
     
  27. Garrett

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    I missed it but it was probably the 60’s one I have seen a similar poll and that was the one.
    As to which is the best I though the one after the Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends where they based a lot of the stories on the comic was the best.
     
  28. the_pauley

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    "The Lion King" at No.7 and "Pinocchio", "Fantasia" and "Snow White" not even in the Top 20. That about says it all.

    Even Roy Disney was on the programme and expressed his incredulity at the popularity of this film.

    As usual, some significant animation was not on the list. But, having looked at C4's website and how the voting on these things works, it's easy to see why. One cannot simply enter one's 10 favourite movies. Oh no. Channel 4 have selected 125 nominations for you to choose from. Which will explain several forum members astonishment as to why a particular favourite wasn't there.

    A quick perusal of the list of nominations reveals no Disney "Sleeping Beauty". And no sign of Fleischer's "Hoppity Goes to Town" (aka "Mr Bug Goes to Town"), a movie widely regarded in animation circles as one of the great achievements in full-length animation. And so on...

    But don't worry - we get the option to vote for "Huckleberry Hound"... :rolleyes:

    So not only is the list determined (as all similar lists seem to be) by what J&J Public have watched in the last few months, but the initial selection is stymied from the start by a group of Channel 4 researchers who seem to have randomly plucked titles out of thin air and in the process forgotten some significant achievements in the field.

    Then again these people can't even spell "Dalmatians" properly, and class all animations as "cartoons" so what chance care and attention in other areas?
     
  29. Solomon Grundy

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    It was the old series of Spiderman but they really slagged it off! :thumbsdow
     
  30. Wasabi

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    The cartoons I grew up with in Sweden and video tapes, that I really really like are and were not in the 100 list on channel4 are e.g.

    IL ETAIT UNE FOIS... L'ESPACE
    IL ETAIT UNE FOIS... L'HOMME
    IL ETAIT UNE FOIS... LES AMERIQUES
    Wonderful French Cartoon series from the early 80s
    Uproar in Heaven - wonderful Chinese cartoon series from the late 50s, about the Monkey King
    GUNDAM 0080 - do I need to say more?
    GUNDAM 0083 - -"-
    Astroboy !
    Doraemon !
    The Smurfs - so cute and funny.
    GIJOE - so cool
    Garfield
    Snoopy

    Wasabi
     

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