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Domino 20H picture problem

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by mu3rt3, Oct 16, 2005.

  1. mu3rt3

    mu3rt3
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    I have been a member of this forum for some time now, but this is my first post. Please forgive me if I stuff it up.

    I recently purchased a Domino 20H. My initial positioning of the projector was a temporary one until the new equipment rack I had on order arrived. The only calibration I performed was using some recommended settings of a fellow owner. Even so, I was very happy with the picture.

    When the rack arrived I enlisted the help of a friend to position the projector and calibrate it using the DVE disc. This is when my problem started...

    After setting up the projector with the DVE disk I haven't been happy with the picture. So much so, I even reset the projector to factory settings. Still not happy. Tried using the temporary settings I had been using before (the one's provided by a fellow owner), but still no joy.

    I am using a Toshiba RDXS-32 HDD/DVD Recorder to play DVD's (I am saving up for a HDMI DVD player) through a DVDO Iscan Pro via component cable and then VGA to component cable into the back of the 20H. I've turned off Progressive Scan on the DVD player (to allow the Iscan Pro to do the de-interlacing). The Iscan Pro is set to all default settings (detent).

    The main issue for me is the crispness or sharpness of the picture. It just doesn't seem to be as good anymore. The two discs I was happiest with before (The Transporter and I Robot) just don't look as good.

    After using the DVE disc I ended up with the following settings:

    Brightness 70
    Contrast 64
    Colour 68
    Tint 50
    Sharpness 4
    Filter 4

    Prior to that I was using:

    Brightness 52
    Contrast 58
    Colour 52
    Tint 50
    Sharpness 4
    Filter 4

    The colour temperature was set to Medium in all instances.

    I even tried bypassing the Iscan Pro and going direct from the DVD player to the 20H.

    As stated above, resetting to initial settings hasn't helped either.

    HELP!!

    Any advice or guidance greatly appreciated. :lease:

    Cheers.

    Martin.
     
  2. thedoc

    thedoc
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    Stupid questions (I'm sure you've thought of these) but...

    Have you re-focussed the projector after setting up again?
    Have you changed any zoom/keystone/magnification settings at all?
    Have you changed any other settings, such as gamma, video/film?
    Have you changed any leads?

    Does the projector's internal rectangle & target test card still look as crisp as it did before? If so then it implies it is a problem with your source, DVDO (settings), or cables I guess. If it isn't as crisp at least you know that it is something to do with the projector. I often use this test card to check focus, keystone & projection position on our screen.

    You don't seem to have reduced filter or sharpness, but one thing that seems recurrent is when some people use DVE for the first time to setup, sometimes they find the picture looks softer/de-focussed initially. I think the disc even comments on this also and suggests a "trial" period after altering. Might be worth pulling up the sharpness setting test card and seeing if you improve the picture by checking focus, zoom, then sharpness & filter settings?

    Hope those give you a few initial points to troubleshoot. Don't worry, I'm sure someone far more knowledgable & experienced than me (like Jeff or one of the other guys here) will be able to think of some other suggestions and post soon...
     
  3. mu3rt3

    mu3rt3
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    Thanks for the prompt reply. :)

    In answer to your questions, when I originally used the DVE disc, I didn't change any of the settings you list and I was using the same leads. When I reset the projector to initial settings, it obviously changed then.

    The test patterns (and information screen) all look pretty good. I have been relying on the test patterns to get the picture geometry and position on the screen right.

    I have re-focussed the projector.

    It's interesting you talk about settings looking "softer" or "de-focussed" after initial setup with the DVE. When I was thinking of how to describe what I was seeing, one of the descriptions that came to mind was "soft focus" or "vaseline across the lens".

    I'm assuming that since I've already tried bypassing the Iscan Pro, this isn't the problem.

    I'll try another reset on the projector tonight and use the DVE disc to check things again and see what I come up with.

    After that, the next step I've thought of taking is to hook up a friends DVD player (both through the Iscan Pro and direct) to see what sort of picture I get out of that.

    Cheers.
     
  4. thedoc

    thedoc
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    Out of interest I have the same Toshiba DVD-R you have, and find it is not quite as sharp as my trusty Denon 2800Mk2.

    I reckon it might be worth trying a newer HDMI DVD also to see if you get better results perhaps. Do you have a dealer that would let you do a home trial of one out of interest?
     
  5. mu3rt3

    mu3rt3
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    I'm definitely saving for a HDMI DVD player and have been following the posts about good DVD players to match the 20H in this forum with interest. I think I will buy the Arcam DV79. Any opinions on that also welcome.

    I was happy with the picture I got from the Toshy before I re-positioned the projector and ran through setup with the DVE disc. Admittedly, it wasn't as good as one of the demo's I got with the Arcam DV79, but, I expected that. :) The store I bought the 20H from is going to bring over a different DVD player one night next week (they are flat out at the moment) to see if that makes a difference.

    What's confusing me now, is why can't I get a picture like I had before after resetting the projector and applying the same settings I had BEFORE I did the calibration using the DVE disc? It's probably something really simple and obvious that I'm missing.

    I didn't get a chance to go through the setup again last night, but will definitely have a crack at it tonight. (I'm in Australia, so my night time is your morning to afternoon).
     
  6. thedoc

    thedoc
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    Another stupid suggestion...

    did you change any of the settings on the Toshiba?

    I'm all out of ideas now! :confused:
     
  7. mu3rt3

    mu3rt3
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    Thanks for hanging in there with me :)

    I haven't changed any settings on the Toshy. There's not much to change in it's setup that affects picture (unless I'm missing something..?) :confused:

    I'm curious as to what settings you (or anyone else) have on your projector when playing back content from your Toshy (or others feeding their 20H via component)..? I realise that there are many factors/parameters that need to be taken into account (such as different DVD players etc) when adjusting the projector settings, but would be interested in hearing what settings you (or others) have. I think having other peoples settings as a base or reference point can be useful. Perhaps Jeff can add some info here ..? :lease:

    Cheers.
     
  8. thedoc

    thedoc
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    Next time I switch on I'll post the settings for my 15Khz interlaced component DVD input to give you an idea. I must say the projector came out the box pretty close to the final settings I ended up using.

    IMHO I think focus, zoom, magnification, keystone, sharpness, filter and video/graphics settings are the settings which are most likely to affect the crispness of the image you are seeing. Although contrast, brightness, colour and tint can have quite an effect on the picture - I don't think they will alter the crispness.

    On using the "grey" in built test card, if you stand close to the screen do the pixels look crisp and uniform (i.e equal focus in the corners and the centre of the screen) ?

    One thing I remembered today as well was when I was trying different setups I originally ran my 2800Mk2 in progressive mode (32Khz component). On comparing this to running it interlaced (15Khz component) and letting the projector do the de-interlacing I felt the image was slightly crisper. I tended to find that some discs (those with more apparent edge enhancement) looked more "blurred" or defocussed and edge enhancement was more obvious when letting the DVD player run progressive. This probably just represents that the projector's de-interlacer is better quality and does a better job than the 2800MK2. Hence I leave my DVD interlaced and feed the projector a 15Khz component signal, though I'm sure there will be cases where the DVD player will de-interlace better than the projector nowadays, and with a HDMI feed- you'll be wanting to let the DVD player do the scaling and processing I suspect also.

    Not sure if this is worth you experimenting with either, but might be interesting?
     
  9. mu3rt3

    mu3rt3
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    Some background information that may or may not be relevant:

    The first night I got the projector, I tried running interlaced video out of the Toshy DVD player and using the de-interlacer on the projector (this was before I purchased the Iscan Pro), but the picture was HORRIBLE. After some investigation (and a fair degree of panic) it appears the 20H doesn't "like" de-interlacing the signal from my DVD player. When I switched on the progressive scan on my DVD player, everything came good. I tested this again last night with a different DVD player (another Toshiba that doesn't have a de-interlacer) and the picture was horrible (again).

    I've got the 20H inputs setup correctly - Autosync switching between 15Khz and 32Khz depending on the signal. Has anyone else seen this type of thing..?

    I've also noticed a small 'border' all along the outside of the projected image. The outer 1/2 rows of pixels look different to the rest of the projected image. This happens with both DVD players. Whether I use the Iscan Pro or not and whether I feed the 20H an interlaced or de-interlaced signal. Again, has anyone seen this before..?

    Another bit of testing I did last night was to plug my Apple Powerbook into the projector via a DVI-HDMI cable. The 'border' doesn't appear.

    Martin
     
  10. thedoc

    thedoc
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    What was the picture like when you played it off the laptop?

    (sorry, still not had my projector on this week yet, but when I do I will jot down my settings)

    Ian
     
  11. mu3rt3

    mu3rt3
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    picture was fine when played via the laptop (HDMI). i also got the store where i buy my kit from to bring over an arcam dv79 for an in-home test. the picture was also great, but the picture from the rd-xs32 was fine that night too. the problem seems to come and go. aaaargh.

    did you get a chance to hook up your rd-xs32 to the projector via component..? i'm really interested to know if you observe the same thing as me - when turning off the progressive scan on the dvd player (therefore relying on the projector to do it) do you get a horrible picture? as soon as i switch the progressive scan on the dvd player back on, the picture is fine. i found the same thing when i dug out my old dvd player (another toshiba) and hooked it up to the projector via component. that dvd player doesn't do progressive scan, so you have to rely on the projector to do it. again the picture is horrible.
     

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