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Dolby vision Vs HDR 10: Has Apple just decided the outcome?

davejones2

Active Member
The HDR10 / Dolby Vision debate has been fairly endless since the HDR format began to emerge. Without wanting to start yet another discussion on the relative technical merits of Dolby Vision and HDR 10, I thought it would be interesting to canvass people's thoughts on where the format is heading now that Apple has thrust HDR into the mainstream with the new Apple TV.

I was always fairly sceptical that Dolby Vision was going to gain significant traction, but the demise of Samsung as a high-end TV manufacturer and the success of LG this year despite competition from Sony and Panasonic started to change my opinion.

Now that Apple TV has deeply integrated Dolby Vision I really can't see your average consumer being happy to splash out on a new TV without it being part of the specification for the foreseeable future.

I personally think it's become a "must have" as a consequence and anyone looking for any reassurance on future-proofing a purchase would have to seriously reconsider going for a set without it.

I can't see even retrograde updates for sets to a new dynamic HDR10 standard regaining ground in this respect. The technical descriptions are too murky for the average consumer to wade through even if this new HDR10 standard is equivalent; Dolby vision is an easy brand name to hang on to and now that Apple has become involved its out there as a evolving point of reference for people looking for quality assurance in a way that "HDR-premium" has never even hinted at managing.

I've consequently gone from being someone who was waiting for the Panasonic EZ952 to drop in price to cutting it off my list entirely.

If I were Panasonic or Samsung I'd start to rethink my strategy immediately and bring DV on board regardless of cost ASAP.

I think the Apple TV will be regarded as the turning point for a format hitherto in its infancy. In my opinion very few people are going to risk buying a non-DV compatible set for >£1500 in 6 months time.

Dolby Vision has therefore "won."

Discuss!
 

google

Distinguished Member
The HDR10 / Dolby Vision debate has been fairly endless since the HDR format began to emerge. Without wanting to start yet another discussion on the relative technical merits of Dolby Vision and HDR 10, I thought it would be interesting to canvass people's thoughts on where the format is heading now that Apple has thrust HDR into the mainstream with the new Apple TV.

I was always fairly sceptical that Dolby Vision was going to gain significant traction, but the demise of Samsung as a high-end TV manufacturer and the success of LG this year despite competition from Sony and Panasonic started to change my opinion.

Now that Apple TV has deeply integrated Dolby Vision I really can't see your average consumer being happy to splash out on a new TV without it being part of the specification for the foreseeable future.

I personally think it's become a "must have" as a consequence and anyone looking for any reassurance on future-proofing a purchase would have to seriously reconsider going for a set without it.

I can't see even retrograde updates for sets to a new dynamic HDR10 standard regaining ground in this respect. The technical descriptions are too murky for the average consumer to wade through even if this new HDR10 standard is equivalent; Dolby vision is an easy brand name to hang on to and now that Apple has become involved its out there as a evolving point of reference for people looking for quality assurance in a way that "HDR-premium" has never even hinted at managing.

I've consequently gone from being someone who was waiting for the Panasonic EZ952 to drop in price to cutting it off my list entirely.

If I were Panasonic or Samsung I'd start to rethink my strategy immediately and bring DV on board regardless of cost ASAP.

I think the Apple TV will be regarded as the turning point for a format hitherto in its infancy. In my opinion very few people are going to risk buying a non-DV compatible set for >£1500 in 6 months time.

Dolby Vision has therefore "won."

Discuss!
If Dolby Vision has won who is the loser? It's not really a case of winners and losers just a choice of a feature we might like to have on a TV/Device that we buy. You don't lose HDR10 functionality if you buy a TV/Device that has Dolby Vision. Not from my understanding anyway. I'm not aware of any content that you can only get in DV and not HDR10.
 

Goldorak

Distinguished Member
I used to think exactly that but my thinking evolved.

- Dv is better than hdr10 primarily due to the dynamic metadata and approach.
- Dv works better for sets with lower nits which means differential is less for top lcd sets that can hit a higher peak brightness
- hdr10+ is what hdr10 should have been all along. It is free and I am convinced it will take over hdr10 completly as base layer (effectively putting dv as a higher end hdr because of 10000 nits and end to end 12 bits processing) .

My point is that dv is in a super good place thanks to Apple primarily. However, hdr remains unchartered territories which will normalise end to end only around 2020

That means dv is not for me a must right now especially when lcd is concerned. It is a must for oled but hdr10+ may change that at ces in jan 2018.

Brand like Philips are playing a dangerous game not choosing. I am convinced they are all waiting if blu ray association will add hdr10+ as base layer or just loose hdr10 completly (superceded). It is free after all :)
 

spinaltap

Distinguished Member
HDR on AppleTV4K sounds like a good move, doesn’t it?

Maybe not. Apple has implemented HDR within ‘a container’ rather than as a direct connection with your pure-bred HDR equipped television.

Apple TV 4K review - FlatpanelsHD
 

nodixe

Novice Member
Strictly speaking its not really a war of competing formats as they are not mutually exclusive (ie: vhs/betamax). I know every DV disc uses an HDR10 base layer. HDR10 plus is being included in hdmi 2.1 as optional (like VRR and most of the other features). Even if it replaces base layer it will still be somewhat generic compared to the display testing and optimization that goes into DV.
 

wxman2003

Well-known Member
HDR10 is the base layer for all UHD discs. That has been agreed to by the industry. DV and HDR10+ will be layered over the top of HDR10. Thus HDR10 tv's will not become obsolete as HDR10 will always be available on HDR discs.
 

wxman2003

Well-known Member
If Dolby Vision has won who is the loser? It's not really a case of winners and losers just a choice of a feature we might like to have on a TV/Device that we buy. You don't lose HDR10 functionality if you buy a TV/Device that has Dolby Vision. Not from my understanding anyway. I'm not aware of any content that you can only get in DV and not HDR10.
There are several titles on both VUDU and Apple that have no HDR equivalent discs. So the question is, are they just applying a pseudo HDR/DV to those movies that were never mastered in HDR10? I have read that VUDU is applying DV to a base layer rec709 mastering on those movies that were never mastered using HDR10.
 

Trojan

Distinguished Member
There are several titles on both VUDU and Apple that have no HDR equivalent discs. So the question is, are they just applying a pseudo HDR/DV to those movies that were never mastered in HDR10? I have read that VUDU is applying DV to a base layer rec709 mastering on those movies that were never mastered using HDR10.
I'm not sure Dolby would be happy with that if true.
 

wxman2003

Well-known Member
I'm not sure Dolby would be happy with that if true.
Dolby has already said that DV can be applied to a 1080p master. And since 1080p masters are all sdr709, there is no contradiction. Of course it's still a mastering process to do that and it has to be done correctly. Heck, with the ATV, you can leave DV turned on all the time, which applies DV to everything, and Dolby doesn't seem to have an issue with that. If I were with Dolby, I would tell Apple not to allow that to happen. People who own DV capable tv's and are not really adept at switching the resolution, may have their ATV default to DV 60hz, and the vast majority of watch they would watch on the ATV would look horrible. People will get turned off by DV without really knowing why. That's why DV really needs to tell Apple to implement a native mode ASAP.
 
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raymondo77

Distinguished Member
If Apple killed anything I think it's any prospect of HDR10+ being anything other than a historical footnote.

That said, with the dreadful implementation if people's first impression of "Dolby Vision" is selecting it on the Apple TV then watching content they hasn't actually been mastered in Dolby Vision then that could really sour things.
 

wwwebber

Active Member
So we're supposed to believe that DV has won just because Apply has adopted it in their Apple TV ? I doubt it very much. Do Apple dominate the TV landascape ? - No. Do they dominate the set top box market ? - No. And who decided that Samsung doesn't manufacture high end TVs anymore ??. Lol.
 

joysRus

Active Member
Formats used on discs are fast becoming irrelevant. Streaming is the name of the game and not only Apple, but also Netflix and Amazon are deciding the acceptance of DV.
 

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