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dolby digital

Discussion in 'General Video Gaming Chat' started by ytgti, Aug 19, 2002.

  1. ytgti

    ytgti
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    I thought with sony putting a digital out on the ps2 that game makers would developr games in DD or is it just for the dvd player, i know a few are in pro-logic but thats cr@p i want digital sound when playing games. dose any one know anything about this.
     
  2. Dom H

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    PS2 doesn't do realtime DD decoding, only pre-rendered cutscenes.

    Xbox has full 5.1 decoding on the fly, that basically means 5.1 ingame.
     
  3. ytgti

    ytgti
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    Well i'm not buying an x-box just for that.
     
  4. NeoBlade

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    The Gamecube can also do Pro Logic II in real-time which (if done well) can be just as good in terms as quality as Dolby Digital 5.1. Plus Pro Logic II is now a standard for the Gamecube so all games will support it.

    The PS2 is capable of Pro Logic II as well I'm sure but EA has done a deal with Dolby to use 4.0 DTS in their games. Maybe other developers will go down the PLII route... If you haven't heard it in action and you have the chance, do so. You'll be amazed at what can be done from two small wires...
     
  5. Dom H

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    I believe even if the PS2 does attempt DD it will be encoded in software which is going to be a huge resource drain so only likely to be the cutscenes.

    Not too sure I agree with you neo about PL2 sounding on par with 5 discrete channels.
     
  6. NeoBlade

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    Dom, the PS2 is capable since the demos prove it. Plus EA already have some 4.0 DTS games out but it doesn't do it any justice. They only had the license recently so it needs time to develop.

    As for Pro Logic II... Its different than PL because the rear channels are now in stereo and not in mono, hence 5.1. So you have seperate channels for the front left, centre, front right, rear right, rear left. I should probably call it 5.0 since I can't confirm that it has a seperate channel for the sub-woofer.

    Looking at it on a technical level the only thing that was slowing down the progress of real-time DD 5.1 was lag. Thanks to onboard processors though and advances in technology it is now possible but lag still remains as the real issue. With PLII lag is less of an issue but the signals wouldn't be a "pure" as DD 5.1.

    I own a decent 5.1 setup after spending over £4k on my AV rig (and soon I'm going to up it to a 6.1) and I have the Gamecube all connected up. It sounds sweet with no noticable lag during all sorts of panning. Other Xbox owners would also note the weak centre channel support on Halo and some have found examples of lag creeping in. I believe even EDGE reported this as well in their review.

    I will get an Xbox soon and will test 5.1 on all Xbox games and not just one to compare the quality.
     
  7. fuzzybee

    fuzzybee
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    Neoblade

    I hope your tv is ok mate?
    Sony has not done a deal with dolby regarding DTS as they are totally different companys.
    EA have done a deal with DTS to have DTS 4.0 in there EA Sports Big titles.(maybe more titles in the future)
    As for Pro Logic II it does not have a seperate .1 channel for the subwoofer but it is still superb.
    As far as I am aware the only ps2 game to offer DD5.1 is MGS2 and that is only on some of the cutscenes(not all).

    I have a relatively high end system at the heart of it is a Denon AVR3802 which encodes both PLII and DD5.1 amongst others.

    The xbox in game DD5.1 decoding so far has not been done very well.
    Halo is the best but the center channel is very weak and there is some noticable lag if you are looking for it.
    It still sounds very good but not great and is not comparable to 5.1 decoding on a dvd.

    The GC with PLII is stunning RL being an amazing showcase for the sound format but Eternal Darkness has possibly the best ingame sound I have ever heard.

    For ingame sound PLII seems to be a better option in my experience.

    :D
     
  8. ytgti

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  9. fuzzybee

    fuzzybee
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  10. ytgti

    ytgti
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    No it only dose DD, when i bought it a couple of years ago i didn't really know much about DTS or Dolby, only that DD was better than pro-logic.

    Im thinking off upgrading now though seen as i'm buying more R1 discs but i'm happy with what i've got, it sounds good ( i know it could be better but with my money it will have to do ). Cheers for all the info.
     
  11. NeoBlade

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    Hi Fuzzybee. LTNS mate. Yeah the TV is fine, I didn't post the results on this forum though, only on the TV forum since it was more relevant there. Games in prog.scan are super sweet ^_^

    As for other PS2 games that have 5.1 encoding on cutscenes, FFX does have some as well as MGS2 as you've said. Other than that its just the EA games and Extreme G that has any sort of real time 4.0.

    Mind you mate, nothing will compare to a 5.1 soundtrack on a DVD purely because its not in real-time. The soundtrack on a DVD is all done in the lab so the timing is always perfect since the on-screen action will never change. Real-time 5.1 is a tough job and the Xbox certainly has the best audio chip out there in terms of specs.

    As for 4.0 DTS, you do need a DTS capable receiver as Fuzzybee pointed out. There are loads of great budget recievers out now esp. the Yamaha and Marantz models. Well worth checking out if you're planning on upgrading.
     
  12. ytgti

    ytgti
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    So cant they make a game in DD and let the amp do the decoding like my dvd player, that hasn't got an on board decoder so its an optical from the dvd player to the amp.

    Isn't it the same for the ps2.

    I mean, game/dvd, ps2/dvd player, optical to the amp, cos the ps has got an optical so it must work the same kind of way as the dvd player.

    Any way hope you know what i mean.
     
  13. CarlB

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    A game is not linear (FFX excepted ;) ) so the DD soundtrack cannot be encoded in sync with linear visuals in the same way as a DVD soundtrack. Realtime generation of effects is required to reflect the user-directed realtime nature of the onscreen action.
     
  14. NeoBlade

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    CarlB beat me to it ^_^ I hope that Sony will encourage PLII for the PS2 since it would make the difference.
     
  15. 2manyconsoles

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    Is that likely though - not many people have PLII systems - would it really be worthwhile - I know companies like EA have been using surround since the PS1 but I doubt it will be widespread
     
  16. CarlB

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    As PLII is a decoding technology and backwards-compatible with regular ProLogic, I don't see this would cause a problem.

    I have a Denon A1SE amplifier which has not been upgraded and therefore only offers regular DPL, but I don't really feel compelled to upgrade to PLII as I am not that bothered about ProLogic (I or II) sound. To be honest, the sound in games is so underused compared to the soundtrack of movies that it just doesn't inspire me.

    I have the XBox hooked for DD through the amp, but when you consider that a movie soundtrack may peak at 115db when was the last time you heard a game explore that kind of dynamic range? Sure, they offer some nice panning effects but the soundtracks always seem 'compressed' and never used too imaginatively. For now I'll stick with regular PL on the GC and maybe if I get the upgrade board in the amp I will try PLII. I'm sure it will sound much better but I still think I'll be disappointed in how they choose to use the technology.
     
  17. NeoBlade

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    Pretty much every AV reciever now at all budgets support Pro Logic II. Remember its not only for videogames, its there to enchance stereo as well from any source.
     
  18. CarlB

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    Yeah I already have DTS Neo 6 on the A1SE but don't like it. For stereo I like to listen in stereo, particularly with music. If a source is in surround (Prologic) then I will use the appropriate mode, but otherwise I always choose 'Pure Direct' stereo, which offers the cleanest path through the amp on the Denon and offers fantastic quality.

    I find 'enhancements' gimmicky, but that's just me...
     
  19. NeoBlade

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    When it comes to audio there are quite a few schools of thought alright but most gamers are not too bothered. If you take this into an audio thread though, I would expect everyone to pretty much hate PLII...

    Heres my thought anyway. With videogames PLII and DD 5.1 enhances the sound enough to warrant its use. With stereo broadcasts like on DVB or Sky Digital then again IMO it enhances the sound enough to use it. With music in stereo though I wouldn't use PLII since you do lose a bit of quality. I'm planning to buy a decent 2-channel amp (probably NAD) for my music playback instead of using my AV receiver for the job. Even in stereo direct mode I'm not its decent but you would be limiting things (I own a Marantz SR4200 atm).

    So for the purist, you buy a receiver for the decoding properties to watch DVDs in 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1. Then you would use a 2-Channel amp for anything musical with a decent CD player - NAD 521i is a good start.

    You could take it even further you would need two setups - one for movies and one for music playback...
     
  20. Choddo

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    Well that's wrong on a couple of counts. Firstly, since DPL2 is matrixed, it's never going to be as good as DD, and the DPL2 libraries for the GC have been published/licensed so many games might support it, but certainly not "all games"

    Fuzzybee, hello mate, didn't expect to see around here :)

    Chods
     
  21. Dom H

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    I only really use PL2 for lower quality sources such a radio and digital tv which it adds to, cd's are best left 2ch.

    I still don't think PL2 can surpass 5 discrete channels simply because of the technicalities. Maybe better mixes.

    I can imagine the DTS encoding on the ps2 must be a healthy performance hit :eek:

    On a side note the enviroment effects in Moto GP, particularly the lightening are superb, and must reach somewhere near dolby reference levels. I played MotoGP during a real thunder storm, -20dB on a 3802 and the thunder outside was indistinguishable from the in game effect. Superb.

    Neo the sooner you get an xbox the better :) connect it up to your amp and you will be amazed.
     
  22. 2manyconsoles

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    I just bought that the other day - what a game - fantastic - like you say the sounds are amazing especially the thunder roaring and the sound of engines behind you getting closer and closer. The video previews before grand prix races are a fantastic touch as well - there some real power in the xbox to deliver all that.
     
  23. NeoBlade

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    Theres no doubting the Xbox's power thats for sure. I've said before along with others that its a top piece of hardware for everything that it was deisgned to do.

    Choddo, the technology has been licensed but then the kits have been given to every GC developer since its a part of the GC dev kit. Its much like Dolby licensing its technology for the Xbox's audio chip. The technology is there so its up to the developers to use it or not.

    I don't think anyone would knock the Xbox's audio prowess thats for sure. I've mentioned lag because thats part of the technology but its only noticable if you look out for it.
     
  24. fuzzybee

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    Choddo

    Welcome mate;)

    Dom H

    Totally agree mate music is best left in 2ch.
    I have just bought a Arcam Alpha Cd62 and it sounds amazing brings new life to all my cd's.

    I also agree about Moto GP the sound is superb(so is the game) sadly it was not enough for me to keep my xbox but if the rumours of a £99 xbox by christmas are true then i will be playing it again
     
  25. NeoBlade

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    £99? I'd def. buy one if thats the case... I might be buying 2 new PS2's as well tomorrow... A new Dixons XL store has opened in Cardiff and they're selling things for half price including PS2's... ^_^ Plus they stock component cables but at £60 a pop >_<
     
  26. fuzzybee

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    £60 for a component cable ain't that bad Neo cable wise you get what you pay for.

    I had to have mine specially made as the lenght I required was a long one and it cost me £120:eek:
     
  27. ytgti

    ytgti
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    So what and were would a component cable be used, ive heard of them before but not about them, at that price they must do something special.

    enlighten me.
     
  28. Choddo

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    in terms of quality, it's like RGB, the one big difference being that you can get some TVs to produce a progressive scan picture via a component signal input.
     

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