Dolby Digital EX and THX Surround EX

[Tom @ Cinehome]

Does anyone know of any DD EX titles ? I have plenty of THX Surround EX dvds that my amp recognises as so, but only a THX demo disc that actually flags the amp up as Dolby Digital EX.

The reason I ask is that what if you want the surroung back EX info, but don't want to ust THX processing ?

 

[Miniholic]

Blade 2 R2 is marked on the box as DD EX and DTS ES, and the Seven SE R2 has both as well. Not sure about other titles though.
I would have thought it would be possible to turn THX processing off. Which amp do you have, as DD EX has only recently being licensed as a stand alone format, was previously only available as THX surround EX, although its the same system. It was developed by Dolby & Lucasfilm (for the phantom menace i think) and was therefore only available for THX stuff at first (Mr Lucas not wanting to share again?).

I have a 3802 which is compatible with EX, but is not oficially an EX amp (only DTS ES). I'm only running 5.1 at present, so I've not really checked to see which titles have the extra channels.

Hope this helps a little

 

Try T2 Ultimate DVD. It has a few different sound settings on it.
DD5.1, DTS, THX, ES, EX.

 

[bob007]

A few more here

 

[garmtz]

In fact, an important difference between Dolby Surround EX and THX Surround EX (exept from re-eq with THX) is the fact that THX Surround EX uses Dolby ProLogic for the rears and Dolby Surround EX uses Dolby ProLogic II. Also, a disc does not have to be THX certified to be able to be played in THX Surround EX.

 

[Tom @ Cinehome]

I am currently between amps, comparing the denon1sr with the new arcam av8 and the tag 32r with matching power amps.

The denon shows it as Dolby Digital Ex. It seems you can then apply THX Surround EX "on top of this".

Interesting one this. I want to use the DD EX, but not have to engage THX processing. Could someone clarify the differences ?

 

[Jase]

Originally posted by Edgeyboy

Interesting one this. I want to use the DD EX, but not have to engage THX processing. Could someone clarify the differences ?

With the Denon you just engage whatever mode you want, Dolby EX, THX Surround EX, THX ULTRA 2 Cine or Music etc. If you don´t want to use any of the THX modes leave them off and it will use any of the normal Dolby EX, 5.1, DTS, DTS 6.1 Discrete modes etc etc (dependent on the format of the dvd disc itself & what you select).

You have the choice.

Same with Pro-Logic etc. When you select THX post processing you have the choice of which decoding you want to use, PL Emulation, PL2 Cinema or Music, DTS Neo Movie/Music etc.

 

[Tom @ Cinehome]

Could John Dawson tell us what the AV8 does and displays on its' front panel if you present it with an EX soundtrack and you dont wish to use THX processing , just listen to it in 6.1 or 7.1 ?

Many thanks.

 

[John Dawson]

Right now the AV8 always engages THX post processing when decoding DD EX, not least because I understand that is what the licence required when we designed the product.

I have already discussed this with our engineers and in principle it is possible to disengage the THX post processing for EX now that EX is allowed without a THX licence.

So, out of curiousity, how many of you on here would genuinely like to see that option implemented in a future SW release, and why?

Awaiting your comments chaps.

John Dawson (Arcam)

PS - Tom, we have now shipped an AV8/P7 to Sevenoaks in Hull. Thought you'd like to know.

 

[Jase]

John

If that can be made as a future SW release then great, I´m sure not everyone wants to have THX processing on all the time, I certainly don´t. It´s nice to have the choice, with my Denon, sometimes I have it on, sometimes I don´t, depends on the mood or what dvd is playing!

Cheers

Jase

 

[Tom @ Cinehome]

Hi John,

Thanks for the reply.

I think it is a necessity not to have to engage THX when decoding 6.1 or 7.1. I don't use THX modes as I find it "dulls" the speakers too much for my system and in my room on some discs, much as jase describes.

How long will this update to the AV8 software take as this is an important factor in my purchasing decision ?

Many thanks.

 

[garmtz]

I tend to dislike the THX re-eq almost all the time. With all the latest releases, I never use it. I found it disappointing that with the AV8 in THX EX mode re-eq was not switchable. This is understandable, as THX requires it, but nevertheless, it would be a very nice edition if the AV8 would feature a bare bones Dolby Digital EX mode.

As I said before, THX Surround EX and Dolby Digital EX are not the same and should be implemented separately for completeness sake.

Lexicon has done the same by the way with the MC-12, but in this model, re-eq can be switched off in THX mode.

 

[John Dawson]

Just a note to let people know that we have put this on the "to do" list for the next major AV8 software release, probably early in the new year.

So guys, buy with confidence

John Dawson (Arcam)

 

[garmtz]

That's brilliant!

 

[DVDNUT]

Most definitely, whilst THX processing is suitable for some set-up, perhaps where something like KEF TDN's are used, then fine, use it all the time.
Surely THX processing is very rigid in the way it processes the sound, so to be able to run in say 7.1 with it would be great and very easy to implement.
A quick one for John (if you don't mind): Does the AV8 currently have a 7.1 mode for playback of music ? and how easy is it to impement the the DD 7.1 EX (with no THX)?
Many thanks

 

[ANDY_DUTTON]

Hi there, I will field this one for John, he may add something more later.

7.1 Ch output is available from all of the AV8's multichannel and effects modes including the ARCAM Music mode, by redirecting the surround channels to both the surrounds and rears at -3dB (this way they sum to the right level in the room) a back delay is available as well as independant level adjustment for the back channels. I found in listening tests that this was a very effective way to smooth the presentation of the surround channels, significantly reducing the chance of your attention being pulled to a surround channel.

DTS NEO 6 also provides a 6 channel music surround mode in which the 6th channel is a rear channel directed to the two back speakers, with a delay setting and seperate level adjustment.

The implementation of DD-EX by itself is not difficult once you have already implemented THX EX, however the issue is intergrating the change into the existing user interface and ensuring that the operation is consistant in all the different states that the AV8 can be in.

Regards,
Andrew Dutton (AV8 Team Leader)

 

[Tom @ Cinehome]

Hi Andy

How does the AV8 derive the surround back information from the surround L & R channels ?
Does it use the Pro Logic library ?
If so, is it Pro Logic or Pro Logic II ?

Regards.

Tom.

 

[common]

When watching an EX encoded disc on my Denon A11SR, and using 1 rear back speaker I only get 6.1 on the display not EX which is the same as 'normal' Dolby Digital (until I press THX then I get THXsurround EX)

Should I be seeing 6.1EX ?

 

[Jase]

Originally posted by common
When watching an EX encoded disc on my Denon A11SR, and using 1 rear back speaker I only get 6.1 on the display not EX which is the same as 'normal' Dolby Digital (until I press THX then I get THXsurround EX)

Should I be seeing 6.1EX ?

It´s only the A1SR and upgraded A1SE that will show Dolby EX on the display, the other Denons will show 6.1 Surround. It was because of something to do with the licensing agreement from Dolby (or lack of!).

 

[common]

Cheers Jase - any other way of telling it's picking up EX ?

 

[Jase]

Originally posted by common
Cheers Jase - any other way of telling it's picking up EX ?

Only if the disc has an EX flag encoded on it (not many have) then the Signal Detect light will be lit up. Otherwise you have to rely on disc packaging to tell if its an EX disc (this isn´t very reliable either!).

You can engage the Surround Backs on ANY disc if you want, just that some films sound better than others with the EX processing.

 

[Family Guy]

Anybody know of any Dolby EX discs that have a flag on them? I read a little while ago that Atlantis: The Lost Empire had one but it dosen't trigger my Pioneer 811. All the dts es discs I have on the other hand, do.

 

[Adam Barratt]

Anybody know of any Dolby EX discs that have a flag on them?

Jurassic Park 3 (R1)
Pearl Harbor (even though the soundtrack isn't Dolby Digital Surround EX, the flag was accidentally activated)
Beastmaster (R1)
Atlantis (R1, don't know about 2/4)

All have the EX flag.

Permitting Dolby Digital EX playback without THX's processing is an absolute must these days. Play a near-field remix on DVD such as Lord of the Rings, Blade 2 or Seven and you'll hear why. These have already been adjusted for domestic playback. Putting THX re-equalisation on top of this just kills the soundtrack.

Adam

 

Hope you don't mind me asking this:-

BUT IS IT WORTH TRYING TO BUY AN AMP WITH THX?

 

[michaelab]

IS IT WORTH TRYING TO BUY AN AMP WITH THX?

IMO, no, especially if it's not a really high end one because getting a THX license costs quite a bit of money which, in a cheaper amp would be better spent on other things. Also, just because an amp. doesn't have THX on the cover doesn't mean it isn't up to the THX spec.

Michael.