Dolby Atmos Receiver with 9.2.4 Possible?

DanG2

Novice Member
We're in the planning stages for an in home theatre. We would like 9 speakers (front centre, left and right, 2 rear and 2 on each side because we have 3 rows. We'd also like 4 in ceilings and 2 subs. Is there a receiver that can handle that currently on the market?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
We're in the planning stages for an in home theatre. We would like 9 speakers (front centre, left and right, 2 rear and 2 on each side because we have 3 rows. We'd also like 4 in ceilings and 2 subs. Is there a receiver that can handle that currently on the market?

The setup you describe is only a 7.1.4 setup consisting of 11 channels. A 9.1.4 setup would consist of the front left and right speaker, a centre 2 wide front speakers, 2 surrounds, 2 back surrounds and 4 Atmos speakers.

Which is it you want, an 11 channel or a 13 channel setup?
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
The 2 subs handle the same LFE channel, although the receivers at this level will include the ability to both EQ and level them independently. There's technically no such format as 7.2 because no format includes more than 1 LFE channel. You can add as many subs as you like to any receiver simply by splitting the sub pre out on receivers lacking more than one output, but as I said, not all receivers will see these sub's as individually subwoofers and EQ them independantly of one another.
 
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Deleted member 39241

Guest
The 2 subs handle the same LFE channel, although the receivers at this level will include the ability to both EQ and level them independently. There's technically no such format as 7.2 because no format includes more than 1 LFE channel. You can add as many subs as you like to any receiver simply by splitting the sub pre out on receivers lacking more than one output, but as I said, not all receivers will see these sub's as individually subwoofers and EQ them independantly of one another.
No-one mentioned formats. A set-up with two subwoofers, 7 speakers at base level and 4 speakers at height / ceiling level, would be known as a 7.2.4 set-up.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
No-one mentioned formats. A set-up with two subwoofers, 7 speakers at base level and 4 speakers at height / ceiling level, would be known as a 7.2.4 set-up.

If you say so.

Back on topic. What setup are you after DanG2 an 11 channel setup with a 7 speaker base layer 2 subs and 4 ceiling speakers or are you wanting a 13 channel setup with either 2 additional width speakers or a total of 6 ceiling speakers? THere are receivers that can facilitate you with either of these options.
 
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Deleted member 39241

Guest
If you say so.

Yes, I do, because it is correct. I thought you would appreciate my intervention as I know how important it is for you to ensure that the information provided on these forums is absolutely correct, including the use of the correct terminology. :lesson:
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Yes, I do, because it is correct. I thought you would appreciate my intervention as I know how important it is for you to ensure that the information provided on these forums is absolutely correct, including the use of the correct terminology. :lesson:

So there are 2 LFE channels are there?

Please tell me the page within the following that depicts the different setup required for a 7.2.4 setup compared to a 7.1.4 setup:
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technol...tmos-home-theater-installation-guidelines.pdf

There's only one LFE channel. The fact that some receivers include more than one output to facilitate having more than one sub in a setup is neither here or there. This isn't the OP's issue and any receiver that resolves his other requirements will also facilitate the use of more than one sub.

You could have a sub in every corner of the room, there's still only one LFE channel being shared between them all.

What about 7.2, 9.2 or 11.2?
As we mentioned previously, the “.1” in 5.1, 7.1, and all the others refers to the LFE (low frequency effects) channel in a surround soundtrack, which is handled by a subwoofer. Adding “.2” simply means that a receiver has two subwoofer outputs. Both connections put out the same information since, as far as Dolby and DTS are concerned, there is only one subwoofer track. Since A/V receiver manufacturers want to easily market the additional subwoofer output, the notion of using “.2” was adopted.
Ultimate surround sound guide: Different formats explained
 
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Deleted member 39241

Guest
The y in an x.y.z set-up or an x.y set-up refers to the number of subwoofers connected. You have discovered this yourself in your research:

A/V receiver manufacturers want to easily market the additional subwoofer output, the notion of using “.2” was adopted.

Was adopted. So now known as.
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
No need to make a big deal out of it, anyone can make a mistake. :)

You're the one making a deal of it. Sorry to disappoint you, but the fact that the manufacturers have started refering to it in a certain manner in order to make it appear that they've an advantage over their competotors escapes the fact that it is still only one LFE channel.

My previous posts and the quote from elswhere relating to this still stands and you've posted nothing to dismiss what I posted. I'd be happy to elaborate if the OP wants me to. Other than this, I'm ignoring you from this point forward Rambles.

Back on topic. What setup are you after DanG2 an 11 channel setup with a 7 speaker base layer 2 subs and 4 ceiling speakers or are you wanting a 13 channel setup with either 2 additional width speakers or a total of 6 ceiling speakers? THere are receivers that can facilitate you with either of these options.
 
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Deleted member 39241

Guest
Okay dante01 you go ahead and ignore me, that's no problem. But for other readers, the common terminology when using 2 subwoofers would be to refer to the set-up of x.2 or x.2.x rather than x.1 or x.1.x. And this is the terminology that is adopted by these forums, as shown in product reviews and editorials. :lesson:
 

Khazul

Well-known Member
Seems to be confusion between source format and home AVR output channels.
The atmos source format is a 7.1.2 bed mix + positioned and spread sound objects. There is only ever 1 'LFE' source channel.

The output of all stages of processing in a typical modern home AVR may be multiple 'Sub' out channels that are derived from both the single source LFE channel and any active bass management. I believe Dolby themselves refer to 7.2.4 etc in the context of output channels for home Dolby Atmos.

5.2.4/7.2.4/9.2.4 etc to me refers to the capability of the output channel processing for sub output to be able to manage 2 sub woofer channels with independent delay timing for each sub. Where two physical Sub outputs that share the same timing (and room EQ etc) is to me just one channel - ie x.1.z - ie what is common on many cheaper AVRs.

Home AVR/AVPs tend to conflate several discrete stages of processing under the general heading of surround processing which probably confuses the terminology.
 
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Deleted member 39241

Guest
No, no confusion. The OP and myself were clearly referring to the simple terminology used when 2 subwoofers are connected in a 9.2.4 or 7.2.4 set-up.

Dante01 then took the discussion off on a new and somewhat irrelevant direction about how the audio is or isn't processed to use the 2 subs.

But the relevant and on topic point is that the OP in the thread title states they want a 9.2.4 set-up and then described a 7.2.4 set-up and dante01 incorrectly called it a 7.1.4 set-up. I intervened with the correction to 7.2.4 and was expecting a simple thanks and that would be the end of it.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Dante01 then took the discussion off on a new and somewhat irrelevant direction about how the audio is or isn't processed to use the 2 subs.

No, you did. I never pursued the number of subs nor made an issue of it up until you started to take a hissy fit that I'd posted 7.1.4 as opposed to making an issue of there being 2 subs within the OPs setup. You appear to be fishing for an argument. I explained myself in response to you criticism and what I posted is correct.
 
D

Deleted member 39241

Guest
No, you did. I never persuade this up until you started to take a hissy fit that I'd posted 7.1.4 as opposed to making an issue of there being 2 subs within the OPs setup. You appear to be fishing for an argument. I explained myself in response to you criticism and what I posted is correct.
I thought you were ignoring me?

Hardly a hissy fit. My exact post was a total of 9 letters and 3 numbers. All you had to do was hit the thanks button, or do nothing. You took it upon yourself to go into some pompous rant about how audio is or isn't processed for 2 subwoofers. Completely irrelevant diversion tactics because you didn't want to just say, oh yeah, I meant 7.2.4.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I thought you were ignoring me?

Hardly a hissy fit. My exact post was a total of 9 letters and 3 numbers. All you had to do was hit the thanks button, or do nothing. You took it upon yourself to go into some pompous rant about how audio is or isn't processed for 2 subwoofers. Completely irrelevant diversion tactics because you didn't want to just say, oh yeah, I meant 7.2.4.

My original post:
The setup you describe is only a 7.1.4 setup consisting of 11 channels. A 9.1.4 setup would consist of the front left and right speaker, a centre 2 wide front speakers, 2 surrounds, 2 back surrounds and 4 Atmos speakers.

Which is it you want, an 11 channel or a 13 channel setup?

To which you posted:
Actually, a 7.2.4.

and my exact reply:
The 2 subs handle the same LFE channel, although the receivers at this level will include the ability to both EQ and level them independently. There's technically no such format as 7.2 because no format includes more than 1 LFE channel. You can add as many subs as you like to any receiver simply by splitting the sub pre out on receivers lacking more than one output, but as I said, not all receivers will see these sub's as individually subwoofers and EQ them independantly of one another.


It appears that my reply simply wasn't enough for you. Is it incorrect?
 
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DanG2

Novice Member
Thanks for the feedback all. The speaker layout is as follows:

Front Center
Front Left
Front Right
Side 1 Right (between row 1/2)
Side 2 Right (between row 2/3)
Side 1 Left (between row 1/2)
Side 2 Left (between row 2/3)
Rear Right
Rear Left
2 Subs placed in front of room
4 Atmos ceilings

Would that not be 9.2.4?
 

citywalker

Member
Would that not be 9.2.4?
No, this is 7.2.4 (or 7.1.4), just double sides, sound from the side speakers are same.
9.2.4 has front wide speakers not 6 back speakers.
Every number marks, that different (discrete or just somekind processed) sound is coming from the speaker. You can double, triple or whatever you want each speaker, but this doesn't increase sound processing from receiver.
 
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Deleted member 39241

Guest
I think that's just a semantics / terminology issue. If @DanG2 places the speakers approximately like this:

9.1.4 Dolby Atmos Enabled Speaker Setup

And then adds a second subwoofer, it would be a 9.2.4 set-up.

Some creative license is allowed, in a home environment, we don't all get our speakers spot on the exact placement and angle that Dolby recommends.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Here is what speakers and their locations would typify an Atmos 9.1.4 setup and configuration:

snapshot002.jpg


  1. Seating position
  2. Left and right speakers
  3. Center speaker
  4. Subwoofer
  5. Left and right wide speakers
  6. Left and right surround speakers
  7. Left and right rear surround speakers
  8. Left and right top front overhead speakers
  9. Left and right top rear overhead speakers

The front width speakers need to be ahead of your seating as opposed to being at your sides. You can get more info via these guidelines:
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/9.1.4-overhead-speaker-setup-guide.pdf

The fac that you've 3 rows of seating simply means that the front wodths would still need to be in front of the first row and that the backmost surrounds would still need to be behind the back row. The side surrounds would be in alignment with your middle row of seating. THe centre of the middle row would in all probability be the prime listening position in such a setup.

Also note that the front width speakers wouldn't be engaged by either Dolby Surround or Neural:X upmixing and that only discrete Atmos soundtracks will use these speakers.
 
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Khazul

Well-known Member
Also note that the front width speakers wouldn't be engaged by either Dolby Surround or Neural:X upmixing and that only discrete Atmos soundtracks will use these speakers

Will atmos processing (for eg on the new 13ch denon AVR and new 13ch Marantz processor) not spread the 7.1.2 bed mix to the extra side channels (or even be able to treat them as a side array as with cinema processors) as well as using them individually for positioned sound objects?
 

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